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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 22:03:10 GMT
I don't really see anyone asking for 'preferential treatment'. Just an even playing field, or something as close to that as is realistically achievable. I don't know whether it's the club's fault or the league's but I don't think it's right that we've had three games in four or five days each of the last three weeks. It also seems wrong that after today we'll have played eight BBL fixtures and six of them will have been against Lions, Eagles and Royals. If you were responsible for putting our schedule together and set out with the sole intention of making life as difficult for us as possible, you'd have been hard pressed to do a better job than has been done. Had just a couple of our November fixtures been scheduled for early October they could obviously have gone ahead as planned and the whole thing would have been far more manageable. There can't be a level playing field. You've chosen to enter a competition that the other 11 BBL teams haven't. The complication is that the preliminary game was the biggie, and it affected the rest of your schedule. To answer Blueskies, in the BBL you get to choose when your home dates are. I've no doubt that Riders could ask to not start their league games until late November or they could stick a load of home games in the opening weeks and move them ( there's precedent) but you just can't expect clubs to move their home games to accommodate Riders' European adventure. It just screws things up too much. I'm sure you could start your league campaign in late November, but what happens if you get through the group stage? There's absolutely no way Kevin R didn't know all of this when Riders made the decision, though. He's older, wiser and (possibly) better looking that me. He knew the score. I've not idea why the BBL site has ignored Riders in Europe, though. I was encouraged to give Guildford plenty of coverage when I was doing it. |
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Post by number23 on Nov 25, 2018 23:48:21 GMT
I had a quick look at Riders' Europe Cup opposition to see how their fixtures compared, to see if they were doing anything very different? As far as I could make out, all three teams continued to play a mix of home and away games in their domestic leagues while Europe Cup was on - but each team seemed to have only one domestic game per weekend for the duration of the group stage, and even then only on a Saturday or Sunday. I'm not sure if the Italian and Hungarian leagues don't do double-headers/weekday games in general, or they've been intentionally avoided for those clubs while they're in European competition?
Agree that the lack of coverage on the BBL site was pretty shocking, and I don't remember anything much on social media either.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 26, 2018 6:10:35 GMT
I had a quick look at Riders' Europe Cup opposition to see how their fixtures compared, to see if they were doing anything very different? As far as I could make out, all three teams continued to play a mix of home and away games in their domestic leagues while Europe Cup was on - but each team seemed to have only one domestic game per weekend for the duration of the group stage, and even then only on a Saturday or Sunday. I'm not sure if the Italian and Hungarian leagues don't do double-headers/weekday games in general, or they've been intentionally avoided for those clubs while they're in European competition? Agree that the lack of coverage on the BBL site was pretty shocking, and I don't remember anything much on social media either. It's more than possible that the lack of coverage from BBL on their social media is down to the fact they are just poor in general rather than deliberate |
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Post by LTFan on Nov 26, 2018 13:47:48 GMT
Regarding scheduling of BBL games – I think the BBL are being given some unfair criticism on here. They accommodated Riders’ early season fixtures in a way I’ve never seen them do before for any other team. They’ve still played only half the number of games most other teams have. I don’t see any other domestic leagues giving their teams such consideration. And as has been said, it’s not just the BBL, its every other team in the league potentially being inconvenienced in some way or another. Riders chose to enter European competition (and good for them) but with that decision they have to accept the consequences.
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Post by LTFan on Nov 26, 2018 13:48:01 GMT
Regarding the BBL not promoting Riders’ European campaign – yes, this is disappointing. I guess the argument is that the BBL is a privately run organisation, so why should they be promoting someone else’s (e.g. Does the football Premier League promote teams efforts in the Champions League? No). But that argument sort of falls apart when they promote other organisations they don’t manage – like the Team GB games and the All-Stars Championship. Also, you could argue that Riders playing in Europe boosts their domestic league’s (the BBL) profile, so the BBL should get behind it. Yeah, it’s quite a difficult argument to make as to why the BBL ignored it.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 26, 2018 15:15:08 GMT
Regarding scheduling of BBL games – I think the BBL are being given some unfair criticism on here. They accommodated Riders’ early season fixtures in a way I’ve never seen them do before for any other team. They’ve still played only half the number of games most other teams have. I don’t see any other domestic leagues giving their teams such consideration. And as has been said, it’s not just the BBL, its every other team in the league potentially being inconvenienced in some way or another. Riders chose to enter European competition (and good for them) but with that decision they have to accept the consequences. This is only raised because our MD suggested we wouldn't be able to try Europe again without better scheduling from BBL There's clearly something that our club thinks could have been done differently And it may not be massive what we would like to see to help Without knowing what it is then I guess it's hard to debate etc. No easy answers regardless I imagine |
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Post by LTFan on Nov 26, 2018 15:28:45 GMT
Regarding scheduling of BBL games – I think the BBL are being given some unfair criticism on here. They accommodated Riders’ early season fixtures in a way I’ve never seen them do before for any other team. They’ve still played only half the number of games most other teams have. I don’t see any other domestic leagues giving their teams such consideration. And as has been said, it’s not just the BBL, its every other team in the league potentially being inconvenienced in some way or another. Riders chose to enter European competition (and good for them) but with that decision they have to accept the consequences. This is only raised because our MD suggested we wouldn't be able to try Europe again without better scheduling from BBL There's clearly something that our club thinks could have been done differently And it may not be massive what we would like to see to help Without knowing what it is then I guess it's hard to debate etc. No easy answers regardless I imagine Absolutely, but the message from the Riders MD did appear to suggest that a major factor in whether Riders try Europe again next season is whether the BBL can be (even) more accommodating in terms of game scheduling. And I think that's a unreasonable request personally. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 17:40:39 GMT
What more could be done? It's probably been mentioned already, but any further accommodation towards the Riders is likely to lead to more fixture congestion for the Riders later in the season.
The suggestion that provisional fixtures could have been put in the dead weeks may have been something worth looking at?
Could Riders themselves have done anything differently to help?
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Post by Steven McTowelie on Nov 27, 2018 16:32:24 GMT
There can't be a level playing field. You've chosen to enter a competition that the other 11 BBL teams haven't. The complication is that the preliminary game was the biggie, and it affected the rest of your schedule. It may not be possible to create a truly even playing field but I don't think we needed to be disadvantaged to anything like the extent that we were. Over the last three weeks Riders have had six domestic fixtures. Falco Vulcano played only twice over that period in the Hungarian league. Olaj and Sassari played three times. Both had European qualifiers to deal with in September/October. I have to imagine it was our choice to leave September and much of October free for potential qualifiers but in hindsight, that clearly wasn't the right thing to do. I think we can be fairly confident already that no BBL team is going to do anything in the BCL any time soon. Bakken were far, far better than us but probably a fair enough representation of the kind of opposition our teams should expect to face at that stage of that competition. And they were eliminated in the second qualifying round. Of the six teams we could potentially have drawn in the first round, I think Oradea is the only one we'd have had a realistic chance of beating. I think the best way to approach this in future would be to schedule two or three BBL games in the first half of October and one per week during November. The likelihood of a BBL team making the second or certainly third round of BCL qualification and having to postpone those early domestic fixtures would be slim to none in my view. And if it did happen would anyone be too upset? It would be a great problem for the club and the league to have. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 27, 2018 16:51:40 GMT
So to enter next year or not?
If you don't, I wouldn't be surprised to see an exodus.... including Rob himself....
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Post by LTFan on Nov 27, 2018 16:54:51 GMT
There can't be a level playing field. You've chosen to enter a competition that the other 11 BBL teams haven't. The complication is that the preliminary game was the biggie, and it affected the rest of your schedule. It may not be possible to create a truly even playing field but I don't think we needed to be disadvantaged to anything like the extent that we were. Over the last three weeks Riders have had six domestic fixtures. Falco Vulcano played only twice over that period in the Hungarian league. Olaj and Sassari played three times. Both had European qualifiers to deal with in September/October. Because, presumably, you decided to not play any games in September and most of October. So maybe you were disadvantaged over the past few weeks – but it was your own making! Of course you probably did what you though was best at the time, but now having lived it I suspect you might do things differently. But none of that is the fault of the BBL as far as I can see. |
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Post by Steven McTowelie on Nov 27, 2018 17:19:28 GMT
Because, presumably, you decided to not play any games in September and most of October. So maybe you were disadvantaged over the past few weeks – but it was your own making! I've acknowledged that on a couple of occasions now, including in the post you've just quoted from. I don't know why you seem to think that there's no criticism of the club implied in what I'm saying here. Frankly, I don't think that attributing blame it what's important anyway. What's important is recognising that our schedule was poorly constructed this season and figuring out ways for us (or anyone else) to do it better next time. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 27, 2018 17:32:51 GMT
So to enter next year or not? If you don't, I wouldn't be surprised to see an exodus.... including Rob himself.... In his interview after the final Euro game Rob made a point of thanking everyone who had helped make the Euro adventure possible and said it had been an incredible experience for everybody involved It didn't sound like the interview of someone who would demand it happen every season IMO He also said it has been physically and mentally very tough for all concerned etc Now he's experienced how tough it is on and off the court he may not be desperate to repeat unless it is able to be done differently and better next time He definitely seemed to be very appreciative of the fact we had even attempted it at all to be honest He knows it's not easy to attempt for a BBL club for sure (Re players leaving - again I guess that could happen but we are used to that and if Rob stays can certainly handle it better or at least as well as any other team in BBL right now) |
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Post by LTFan on Nov 27, 2018 18:46:08 GMT
Because, presumably, you decided to not play any games in September and most of October. So maybe you were disadvantaged over the past few weeks – but it was your own making! I've acknowledged that on a couple of occasions now, including in the post you've just quoted from. I don't know why you seem to think that there's no criticism of the club implied in what I'm saying here. Frankly, I don't think that attributing blame it what's important anyway. What's important is recognising that our schedule was poorly constructed this season and figuring out ways for us (or anyone else) to do it better next time. Fair enough, when you said there was no need for you to be as disadvantaged as much as you were I read that as you criticising the BBL, implying they could have done more to help. Much like your MD appears to be. If that wasn’t your intention I apologise.  And we do agree, domestic fixtures are an issue, but I don’t know if there’s a right answer or if anyone is to blame, it’s just the way it is. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 27, 2018 19:10:14 GMT
The Hungarian League has 7 less regular season games than ours but is played over same length of time. So less games to fit in. That will help them.
The Itlaian league has 3 less regular season games over same time. Not much help. But a help none the less.
They both potentially have more play off games after the regular season ends but their post season lasts twice as long as ours. So that's not a problem for them.
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Post by LTFan on Nov 27, 2018 20:03:19 GMT
The Hungarian League has 7 less regular season games than ours but is played over same length of time. So less games to fit in. That will help them. The Itlaian league has 3 less regular season games over same time. Not much help. But a help none the less. They both potentially have more play off games after the regular season ends but their post season lasts twice as long as ours. So that's not a problem for them. Interesting. But both have multiple teams in Europe competitions. Maybe when the BBL has multiple teams regularly competing in Europe we should consider slightly less domestic games... but I suspect that’s a long way away. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 6:48:24 GMT
The only way of cutting back on league games would be to go to a simple home & away schedule, just 22 games - and there seems little appetite for a return to a Trophy group stage.
I imagine Riders could choose to play as many or as few league games as they want during their European campaign, but the only way I can see how they could tweak the fixture list is to not play at the Friday night teams during that period. There's a limit to how much the BBL can do for one particular club, though.
As an aside, around the turn of the century Towers played in two European competitions simultaneously. IIRC they played 25 European games that season with their North European Basketball League campaign skewed in favour of away (and a couple of neutral venue) games. I think they played 15 away Euro games that season and neither of their fans moaned about it on here. Although they did get preferential treatment by being allowed an unregistered player.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 28, 2018 7:18:19 GMT
The only way of cutting back on league games would be to go to a simple home & away schedule, just 22 games - and there seems little appetite for a return to a Trophy group stage. I imagine Riders could choose to play as many or as few league games as they want during their European campaign, but the only way I can see how they could tweak the fixture list is to not play at the Friday night teams during that period. There's a limit to how much the BBL can do for one particular club, though. As an aside, around the turn of the century Towers played in two European competitions simultaneously. IIRC they played 25 European games that season with their North European Basketball League campaign skewed in favour of away (and a couple of neutral venue) games. I think they played 15 away Euro games that season and neither of their fans moaned about it on here. Although they did get preferential treatment by being allowed an unregistered player. I think we just need to have league games scheduled that assume we will be knocked out first round of champions league (but can be re-scheduled with short notice if we arent) And games on Saturdays or Sundays only when we are in euro league Wednesday night phase (definitely no double headers) And maybe we have the option to re-schedule the odd one of those if we need it without penalty (maybe a home game or two so it's not too disruptive to our opponents) A bit of planned flexibility Anyway all the above is a waste of time if the euro experience isn't financially viable But I'm sure there's stuff we have learnt that could make the schedule better As it stands I honestly believe weve done ourselves a favour (this season at least) getting knocked out first round of champions league and first group phase of the FIBA Cup We were struggling to keep it all going by the end |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 28, 2018 7:44:29 GMT
So to enter next year or not? If you don't, I wouldn't be surprised to see an exodus.... including Rob himself.... In his interview after the final Euro game Rob made a point of thanking everyone who had helped make the Euro adventure possible and said it had been an incredible experience for everybody involved It didn't sound like the interview of someone who would demand it happen every season IMO He also said it has been physically and mentally very tough for all concerned etc Now he's experienced how tough it is on and off the court he may not be desperate to repeat unless it is able to be done differently and better next time He definitely seemed to be very appreciative of the fact we had even attempted it at all to be honest He knows it's not easy to attempt for a BBL club for sure (Re players leaving - again I guess that could happen but we are used to that and if Rob stays can certainly handle it better or at least as well as any other team in BBL right now) I bet he was elated the first time he won a trophy as well.
If he wins the league this year, is it a massive achievement? Will it mean as much to him as the first time? Especially to then effectively be told "this is as good as it gets for you".
Sorry, doesn't strike me as the unambitious type. Theres only so long before an offer comes along whereby he has the offer of Europe, a bigger league or a more attractive challenge. Europe to me is the only carrot you can dangle in front of him professionally that will make him want to stay.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 28, 2018 7:49:26 GMT
In his interview after the final Euro game Rob made a point of thanking everyone who had helped make the Euro adventure possible and said it had been an incredible experience for everybody involved It didn't sound like the interview of someone who would demand it happen every season IMO He also said it has been physically and mentally very tough for all concerned etc Now he's experienced how tough it is on and off the court he may not be desperate to repeat unless it is able to be done differently and better next time He definitely seemed to be very appreciative of the fact we had even attempted it at all to be honest He knows it's not easy to attempt for a BBL club for sure (Re players leaving - again I guess that could happen but we are used to that and if Rob stays can certainly handle it better or at least as well as any other team in BBL right now) I bet he was elated the first time he won a trophy as well.
If he wins the league this year, is it a massive achievement? Will it mean as much to him as the first time? Especially to then effectively be told "this is as good as it gets for you".
Sorry, doesn't strike me as the unambitious type. Theres only so long before an offer comes along whereby he has the offer of Europe, a bigger league or a more attractive challenge. Europe to me is the only carrot you can dangle in front of him professionally that will make him want to stay.
We will see. Hes on a multi year contract for what that's worth |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 28, 2018 8:24:48 GMT
I bet he was elated the first time he won a trophy as well.
If he wins the league this year, is it a massive achievement? Will it mean as much to him as the first time? Especially to then effectively be told "this is as good as it gets for you".
Sorry, doesn't strike me as the unambitious type. Theres only so long before an offer comes along whereby he has the offer of Europe, a bigger league or a more attractive challenge. Europe to me is the only carrot you can dangle in front of him professionally that will make him want to stay.
We will see. Hes on a multi year contract for what that's worth You probably will get a few more years out of him, don't get me wrong here, but eventually if it were me I'd feel as though I was being held back without the opportunity to try to manage being in Europe alongside the usual domestic competition.
He has to win a sweep to be considered up there with the elite yet anyway haha...
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Post by LTFan on Nov 28, 2018 9:41:45 GMT
Would Rob really accept an offer from a European team right now? Doesn’t he have a relatively young daughter, who I’m guessing has just started or is about to start school? I suspect he feels he’s put down roots in Leicester and the UK, he’s started a family here… I know he’s ambitious but there’s more to take into consideration than just the offer of a better job.
I’d guess that that the only ‘better jobs’ he’d consider right now would either be based in the US (a permanent return home for him) or with another BBL team with European aspirations. If it’s a challenge he’s after I think there are far crazier predictions than him moving to a team like London Lions if they could also promise a European presence.
But I don’t know the guy personally, so who knows. Maybe he would be happy to uproot to some European country.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 28, 2018 9:52:15 GMT
Would Rob really accept an offer from a European team right now? Doesn’t he have a relatively young daughter, who I’m guessing has just started or is about to start school? I suspect he feels he’s put down roots in Leicester and the UK, he’s started a family here… I know he’s ambitious but there’s more to take into consideration than just the offer of a better job. I’d guess that that the only ‘better jobs’ he’d consider right now would either be based in the US (a permanent return home for him) or with another BBL team with European aspirations. If it’s a challenge he’s after I think there are far crazier predictions than him moving to a team like London Lions if they could also promise a European presence. But I don’t know the guy personally, so who knows. Maybe he would be happy to uproot to some European country. Think it would take a seriously big offer from another BBL team to make him uproot that I doubt any would be able to afford. I think it's Riders or overseas for him |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 10:19:25 GMT
I'm sure I watched an interview with him where he alluded to this sort of conversation. What I took from it was that he enjoyed the quality of life he had in Leicester and that any future decision would give serious weighting to that factor.
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Post by blueskies99 on Nov 28, 2018 11:00:27 GMT
I'm sure I watched an interview with him where he alluded to this sort of conversation. What I took from it was that he enjoyed the quality of life he had in Leicester and that any future decision would give serious weighting to that factor. Rob's contract takes him to the Summer of 2021. |
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