erd87
Bench Player
Posts: 135 
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Post by erd87 on Jan 24, 2020 11:37:35 GMT
Absolute travesty that such a huge amount of money has been flushed down the drain. If that level of money had been invested wisely, following the path of other sustainable clubs (Riders, Eagles etc) that club would've stood a fighting chance. None of these clubs started off by chucking money at the playing side straight away and have understood that you have to build local interest forst before doing that.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 24, 2020 11:45:34 GMT
Absolute travesty that such a huge amount of money has been flushed down the drain. If that level of money had been invested wisely, following the path of other sustainable clubs (Riders, Eagles etc) that club would've stood a fighting chance. None of these clubs started off by chucking money at the playing side straight away and have understood that you have to build local interest forst before doing that. The above assumes money has been wasted. I think the reality will be a large chunk of what they have "spent" is still owed and will never be paid Imaginary money Aren't players from last season still waiting to be paid? |
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Post by LTFan on Jan 24, 2020 13:19:17 GMT
Absolute travesty that such a huge amount of money has been flushed down the drain. If that level of money had been invested wisely, following the path of other sustainable clubs (Riders, Eagles etc) that club would've stood a fighting chance. None of these clubs started off by chucking money at the playing side straight away and have understood that you have to build local interest forst before doing that. The above assumes money has been wasted. I think the reality will be a large chunk of what they have "spent" is still owed and will never be paid Imaginary money Aren't players from last season still waiting to be paid?Yes, and not just players, the coach too. All taking legal action. Allegedly. |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 13:57:43 GMT
Some interesting takes here, some are close to what happened, others not so much.
Jon clearly knew nothing about basketball, I don't think anyone ever said otherwise. He was an investor, simple as that. Sadly, poor advice and broken promises at the start didn't help, causing all sorts of mistakes and poor decisions in general. Lack of investment and sponsorship beyond that and it all caught up with him.
He had big ambitions, shame we will never see what it could have become.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 14:16:12 GMT
They'll have a job suing something that doesn't exist.
Abcd, we saw what it became. It was never going to end differently.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 14:21:02 GMT
I guess the odd season ticket holder who paid by credit card may be able to get some kind of partial chargeback? Anyone who bought a season ticket should've known better, honestly. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 24, 2020 14:27:54 GMT
They'll have a job suing something that doesn't exist. Abcd, we saw what it became. It was never going to end differently. Google "Peeping behind the veil of incorporation". |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 14:28:10 GMT
They'll have a job suing something that doesn't exist. Abcd, we saw what it became. It was never going to end differently. It could have done if it was set up properly from the start. There was a lot of positives in the ideas, though the initial contract etc. Meant it was always going to fail. |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 14:29:49 GMT
There's one person in all of this who people seem to have forgotten was ever involved. Disappeared, blame free.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 24, 2020 14:39:22 GMT
There's one person in all of this who people seem to have forgotten was ever involved. Disappeared, blame free. Shire or Deng? (Was Deng ever going to be involved?) |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 14:41:52 GMT
Disappeared was the wrong word to use there.. let's say, left.
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Post by baldeagle on Jan 24, 2020 14:47:29 GMT
There's one person in all of this who people seem to have forgotten was ever involved. Disappeared, blame free. Shire or Deng? (Was Deng ever going to be involved?) Rumour has it that one person allegedly signed some rather onerous contracts, perhaps maybe allegedly..... |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 14:48:37 GMT
Shire or Deng? (Was Deng ever going to be involved?) Rumour has it that one person allegedly signed some rather onerous contracts, perhaps maybe allegedly..... Indeed. People should remember there is always two sides. What certain people come out and say on twitter isn't always the facts. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 24, 2020 15:34:14 GMT
Some interesting takes here, some are close to what happened, others not so much. Jon clearly knew nothing about basketball, I don't think anyone ever said otherwise. He was an investor, simple as that. Sadly, poor advice and broken promises at the start didn't help, causing all sorts of mistakes and poor decisions in general. Lack of investment and sponsorship beyond that and it all caught up with him. He had big ambitions, shame we will never see what it could have become.
See I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, and for what its worth my opinion on the matter (be it right or wrong but has been taken from talking to a lot of people in various positions around the league from players/coaches/officials/owners) is that there's really three people/bodies to blame in the main for the whole debacle:
1) Jon Sawyer - I'm sorry, but the man clearly isn't an idiot. He's obviously a wealthy bloke with deep pockets, and he hasn't gotten there by being mugged off at every turn. So he knows half of nothing about basketball. Fine. As an investor - you damn well get to know before blowing god knows how much on a sports franchise. The fact its a niche sport in this country by itself should ring alarm bells that careful research needs doing. You don't just hand your money over to anyone, no matter how good your intentions. When its all gone to pot, he's tried to cut his losses that in turn has resulted in a lot of devastation to employees/paying fans/players/coaches etc. Not to mention any disturbance to academies in schools if they are still running in Royals name. His negligent research into what he was investing in is criminal.
2) Nhamo Shire - I really don't think we've spoken about this guy's involvement enough, and again this is opinion not fact so if anyone knows better than me out there I'm all ears (and I'm sure they do to be fair). So, when this thing starts up, he seems to me like he's Sawyers main advisor. He tells everyone he wouldn't get involved in a project that isn't sustainable and isn't the real deal. By that I think its clear he meant "an owner who's going to lash whatever figures I tell him at the club". He pulls all his mates from midnight madness together and promises them silly money and brands it as bringing the best british talent back home (Hamilton was taking about 4 times the salary he was in Spain last season). He tells people its not about the money, but they're helping players set up for life after basketball here and help them set up businesses (the irony is not lost on me at all). Promises all sorts, delivers nothing except a BBL trophy (bare minimum expected with that squad and the money you've thrown at it). Not a care toward sustainability, not an effort to bring a fan base in and develop a hard core following, not a care for the club or whoever gets burned by it and just spends frivolously. The minute the owner wakes up to whats going on and seemingly tries to reduce outgoings - bye bye Nhamo, bye bye Williams. He's sold a dream to all his buddy players who are now out of jobs and others (if not all) out of pocket, and what did he do? Just up sticks and leave. Anyone know what hes up to now? I could be wrong but from the outside he looks as though he's conned a lot of people.
3) The BBL - What exactly do they think they're playing at? Take Reading a few years ago, a club who have built themselves up sustainably over the years to be what was a major player at the time in D1, but just don't have the arena for it. No lads sorry youre not coming in. Now take London - "we'll pay the franchise fee up front and have a gullible owner who'll pay anything for anything" - yep, you're in. If there were background checks done, they were ran by an imbecile. I think the reality is they probably knew this was built on sand (lets face it, the Whatsbev contributors who everyone who thinks they know better than all expressed scepticism, so surely the people who profess to know better did right?) and just wanted a quick pay day. Completely negligent. League looks a joke. Is it any wonder Solent's venue was done without a thought to its BBL viability? Don't blame them one bit.
Like I say, all opinion and how it looks to me and happy to be corrected by someone if they know any more than I?
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 15:37:41 GMT
Some interesting takes here, some are close to what happened, others not so much. Jon clearly knew nothing about basketball, I don't think anyone ever said otherwise. He was an investor, simple as that. Sadly, poor advice and broken promises at the start didn't help, causing all sorts of mistakes and poor decisions in general. Lack of investment and sponsorship beyond that and it all caught up with him. He had big ambitions, shame we will never see what it could have become.
See I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, and for what its worth my opinion on the matter (be it right or wrong but has been taken from talking to a lot of people in various positions around the league from players/coaches/officials/owners) is that there's really three people/bodies to blame in the main for the whole debacle:
1) Jon Sawyer - I'm sorry, but the man clearly isn't an idiot. He's obviously a wealthy bloke with deep pockets, and he hasn't gotten there by being mugged off at every turn. So he knows half of nothing about basketball. Fine. As an investor - you damn well get to know before blowing god knows how much on a sports franchise. The fact its a niche sport in this country by itself should ring alarm bells that careful research needs doing. You don't just hand your money over to anyone, no matter how good your intentions. When its all gone to pot, he's tried to cut his losses that in turn has resulted in a lot of devastation to employees/paying fans/players/coaches etc. Not to mention any disturbance to academies in schools if they are still running in Royals name. His negligent research into what he was investing in is criminal.
2) Nhamo Shire - I really don't think we've spoken about this guy's involvement enough, and again this is opinion not fact so if anyone knows better than me out there I'm all ears (and I'm sure they do to be fair). So, when this thing starts up, he seems to me like he's Sawyers main advisor. He tells everyone he wouldn't get involved in a project that isn't sustainable and isn't the real deal. By that I think its clear he meant "an owner who's going to lash whatever figures I tell him at the club". He pulls all his mates from midnight madness together and promises them silly money and brands it as bringing the best british talent back home (Hamilton was taking about 4 times the salary he was in Spain last season). He tells people its not about the money, but they're helping players set up for life after basketball here and help them set up businesses (the irony is not lost on me at all). Promises all sorts, delivers nothing except a BBL trophy (bare minimum expected with that squad and the money you've thrown at it). Not a care toward sustainability, not an effort to bring a fan base in and develop a hard core following, not a care for the club or whoever gets burned by it and just spends frivolously. The minute the owner wakes up to whats going on and seemingly tries to reduce outgoings - bye bye Nhamo, bye bye Williams. He's sold a dream to all his buddy players who are now out of jobs and others (if not all) out of pocket, and what did he do? Just up sticks and leave. Anyone know what hes up to now? I could be wrong but from the outside he looks as though he's conned a lot of people.
3) The BBL - What exactly do they think they're playing at? Take Reading a few years ago, a club who have built themselves up sustainably over the years to be what was a major player at the time in D1, but just don't have the arena for it. No lads sorry youre not coming in. Now take London - "we'll pay the franchise fee up front and have a gullible owner who'll pay anything for anything" - yep, you're in. If there were background checks done, they were ran by an imbecile. I think the reality is they probably knew this was built on sand (lets face it, the Whatsbev contributors who everyone who thinks they know better than all expressed scepticism, so surely the people who profess to know better did right?) and just wanted a quick pay day. Completely negligent. League looks a joke. Is it any wonder Solent's venue was done without a thought to its BBL viability? Don't blame them one bit.
Like I say, all opinion and how it looks to me and happy to be corrected by someone if they know any more than I?
You're pretty much spot on with ALL of that. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 24, 2020 15:52:47 GMT
Good to know really, because I know everyone reads this board (despite them not admitting it) and I'd hate to be so drastically wrong about anything that sends the wrong message, but its just the overall impression I get about what's gone on.
There's a lot of I told you so on here (most of it by me to be fair) but at the centre of it are a bunch of guys who (despite what I may think about them as players) have been made promises and lied to. That's not ok. If there's ANYTHING good that can come of this its the hope that the people in BBL towers learn from it don't make the same mistakes again making the league look a farce.
Although the cynic in me thinks they saw it as an easy pay day.....
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Post by LTFan on Jan 24, 2020 16:15:16 GMT
Evan after all this it’s amazing that some people on social media are saying not to forget to give thanks to Nhamo Shire for all his help in getting the Royals off the ground last season. Just shows how clueless the average fan is of the situation.
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erd87
Bench Player
Posts: 135
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Post by erd87 on Jan 24, 2020 16:20:04 GMT
Some interesting takes here, some are close to what happened, others not so much. Jon clearly knew nothing about basketball, I don't think anyone ever said otherwise. He was an investor, simple as that. Sadly, poor advice and broken promises at the start didn't help, causing all sorts of mistakes and poor decisions in general. Lack of investment and sponsorship beyond that and it all caught up with him. He had big ambitions, shame we will never see what it could have become.
See I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, and for what its worth my opinion on the matter (be it right or wrong but has been taken from talking to a lot of people in various positions around the league from players/coaches/officials/owners) is that there's really three people/bodies to blame in the main for the whole debacle:
1) Jon Sawyer - I'm sorry, but the man clearly isn't an idiot. He's obviously a wealthy bloke with deep pockets, and he hasn't gotten there by being mugged off at every turn. So he knows half of nothing about basketball. Fine. As an investor - you damn well get to know before blowing god knows how much on a sports franchise. The fact its a niche sport in this country by itself should ring alarm bells that careful research needs doing. You don't just hand your money over to anyone, no matter how good your intentions. When its all gone to pot, he's tried to cut his losses that in turn has resulted in a lot of devastation to employees/paying fans/players/coaches etc. Not to mention any disturbance to academies in schools if they are still running in Royals name. His negligent research into what he was investing in is criminal.
2) Nhamo Shire - I really don't think we've spoken about this guy's involvement enough, and again this is opinion not fact so if anyone knows better than me out there I'm all ears (and I'm sure they do to be fair). So, when this thing starts up, he seems to me like he's Sawyers main advisor. He tells everyone he wouldn't get involved in a project that isn't sustainable and isn't the real deal. By that I think its clear he meant "an owner who's going to lash whatever figures I tell him at the club". He pulls all his mates from midnight madness together and promises them silly money and brands it as bringing the best british talent back home (Hamilton was taking about 4 times the salary he was in Spain last season). He tells people its not about the money, but they're helping players set up for life after basketball here and help them set up businesses (the irony is not lost on me at all). Promises all sorts, delivers nothing except a BBL trophy (bare minimum expected with that squad and the money you've thrown at it). Not a care toward sustainability, not an effort to bring a fan base in and develop a hard core following, not a care for the club or whoever gets burned by it and just spends frivolously. The minute the owner wakes up to whats going on and seemingly tries to reduce outgoings - bye bye Nhamo, bye bye Williams. He's sold a dream to all his buddy players who are now out of jobs and others (if not all) out of pocket, and what did he do? Just up sticks and leave. Anyone know what hes up to now? I could be wrong but from the outside he looks as though he's conned a lot of people.
3) The BBL - What exactly do they think they're playing at? Take Reading a few years ago, a club who have built themselves up sustainably over the years to be what was a major player at the time in D1, but just don't have the arena for it. No lads sorry youre not coming in. Now take London - "we'll pay the franchise fee up front and have a gullible owner who'll pay anything for anything" - yep, you're in. If there were background checks done, they were ran by an imbecile. I think the reality is they probably knew this was built on sand (lets face it, the Whatsbev contributors who everyone who thinks they know better than all expressed scepticism, so surely the people who profess to know better did right?) and just wanted a quick pay day. Completely negligent. League looks a joke. Is it any wonder Solent's venue was done without a thought to its BBL viability? Don't blame them one bit.
Like I say, all opinion and how it looks to me and happy to be corrected by someone if they know any more than I?
Absolutely spot on post. It's so frustrating as I genuinely believe this league could be so much better with the right direction. Participation numbers are rising all the time, it just needs the correct approach. I appreciate that's hard to achieve but it just feels like the league loves to shot itself in the foot over and over. |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 16:55:41 GMT
Evan after all this it’s amazing that some people on social media are saying not to forget to give thanks to Nhamo Shire for all his help in getting the Royals off the ground last season. Just shows how clueless the average fan is of the situation. I saw some of that, crazy! If only they knew. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 20:31:40 GMT
I love London City Royals. Not only did their demise (absolutely) smash all kinds of records for hits on my blog this week, they helped Leopards do this. So cheers chaps, you were utterly clueless and outstandingly arrogant at times, but maybe you've helped keep us up. |
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Post by benji on Jan 24, 2020 20:47:35 GMT
I'm really pleased for you, things seem to be working out well for you. Also good that you've signed a player... |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 21:06:09 GMT
I love London City Royals. Not only did their demise (absolutely) smash all kinds of records for hits on my blog this week, they helped Leopards do this. So cheers chaps, you were utterly clueless and outstandingly arrogant at times, but maybe you've helped keep us up. Great signing for you, but wow, what a terrible post. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 21:08:02 GMT
Dam! What a signing
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 21:23:48 GMT
I love London City Royals. Not only did their demise (absolutely) smash all kinds of records for hits on my blog this week, they helped Leopards do this. So cheers chaps, you were utterly clueless and outstandingly arrogant at times, but maybe you've helped keep us up. Great signing for you, but wow, what a terrible post. Talk us through the bits that are wrong, other than the link not initially working |
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Post by abcd123 on Jan 24, 2020 21:27:12 GMT
Great signing for you, but wow, what a terrible post. Talk us through the bits that are wrong, other than the link not initially working I didn't say anything was wrong. Just not very pleasantly worded was it. Yeah, feel free to brag about OJ, but not like that. |
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