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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 11:17:14 GMT
Just so you're aware the nba pay to have games broadcast on sky/bt sport not the other way around.
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Post by davef on May 3, 2020 11:56:59 GMT
He/she knows that. (Or at least he/should given everything else that is said). Basketball doesn’t sell dishes or subscriptions in the uk so not broadcaster will pay for it.
The Coronavirus point is nonsense. Rugby league has just obtained a £16m loan above and beyond other government programs
The rest of the diatribe is just a repeat of the previous generalised post.
Yeah, I’m linked to eagles and am a trustee of the ecf. Happy to put my head above the parapet because having spent 10 years travelling all around the country and recruiting and speaking to players and agents from other leagues I think I am pretty well placed to assess the league and the perception of it from abroad. (in fact I can’t think of many who would be better placed). So, yeah shoot me down anonymously.
Perhaps I should have posted as a guest too.
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Post by ko25 on May 3, 2020 12:02:34 GMT
Perhaps I should have posted as a guest too. If you had it'd just mean you equally lack any credibility about the game the same as them. |
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Post by Soulrebel on May 3, 2020 12:21:45 GMT
Why this is good news.
All the posts of the last few months suggest the London franchise was in trouble. This sustains it.
What do I hope they do?
Create a sustainable business and not throw shed loads of cash and unstabalise the league. Build a back office that can take the club to another level .
What effect of the investment?
A continued raising of the profile of the game in the Capital.
So fingers crossed. It may not be great news but it's not bad news for sure.
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 3, 2020 18:33:01 GMT
Well we know that Lions needed financial aid/support before the current crisis.
If they have started a new business to renege on paying debts then that's not good and they can't blame Covid for this situation. But we don't know that for sure yet.
In most other sports they would be demoted to non league in that situation as a deterrent.
In BBL we can't afford to lose any club let alone Lions and Vince probably knows it.
I don't want to be too strong against them though as other clubs (far better run than Lions) may face similar choices in coming months albeit not through their own doing. Unlike Lions. Who couldn't make things work financially as it was.
Be interesting to see if British Pro Basketball Clubs get support from the Government. If they do Lions "new business" shouldn't actually get any of it. Any money they might have got should go to the old business creditors
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Post by youngrocks on May 4, 2020 6:11:17 GMT
Quite often in bbl when new owners come in th business/ company changes over?
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 4, 2020 6:28:22 GMT
Quite often in bbl when new owners come in th business/ company changes over? It's more than possible the new owners are going to take responsibility for any monies owed by the old business. Which if they do then there's no argument about anything to be had. But this isn't investment into Vince's existing business as Vince's comments seemed to suggest in the link. It's a new business with new owners, managed by new people in which Vince has been given the role of coach and director of basketball He will be on a salary now like most coaches in the BBL (he's been given some shares as well). |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 4, 2020 6:47:15 GMT
Devil is in the detail. Have they bought the franchise & set up a new company to run it? Or have they taken over the existing company who were running the franchise? What was the total of Lions liabilities? Was there a massive debt or is the 'massive debt' really quite small but seems massive in British basketball terms? It's all guesswork! Perhaps there will be more detail when it's officially announced as opposed to a taped phone conversation. The last accounts filed for the old business are only upto August 2018. At which stage the net liabilities were £273k of which £210k was owed to directors and £63k was other creditors So without more recent accounts its very hard to say |
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Post by GetREAL on May 4, 2020 10:50:47 GMT
He/she knows that. (Or at least he/should given everything else that is said). Basketball doesn’t sell dishes or subscriptions in the uk so not broadcaster will pay for it. The Coronavirus point is nonsense. Rugby league has just obtained a £16m loan above and beyond other government programs The rest of the diatribe is just a repeat of the previous generalised post. Yeah, I’m linked to eagles and am a trustee of the ecf. Happy to put my head above the parapet because having spent 10 years travelling all around the country and recruiting and speaking to players and agents from other leagues I think I am pretty well placed to assess the league and the perception of it from abroad. (in fact I can’t think of many who would be better placed). So, yeah shoot me down anonymously. Perhaps I should have posted as a guest too. I too am very well placed to address the perception of the league and of the governing bodies of basketball who continue to make a mockery of the sport. What does my anonymity matter if the point of a message board is for open debate but I will tell you that we've met on SEVERAL occasions. Trying to label me as misinformed about the game because I won't share/divulge personal information is just a weak position. I've been around the game in the UK and Europe for decades so I know my way around and very informed about the sport on ALL levels and love an intelligent debate with a fellow solicitor! On TV, no the NBA does not pay to be on Sky or BT. Where does one get that from? There may be a nominal deal in place for that content, but to suggest the NBA needs to pay to be on TV in the UK is ill informed. The games are produced in the US and live fed into the UK and in the case with Sky, they do an in-house program around it. Regarding the loan to Rugby League, yes you are right, they got a LOAN. And its RUGBY, so perhaps they would have at least a chance of paying it back. Not sure if Westminster cares enough about basketball to do anything more. So are you suggesting the BBL would want a loan? Would the clubs even be in the position to pay those back? Seems that having to repay loans will put further stress on the businesses once basketball played in front of fans returns. It's an impossible scenario. There is no way basketball will return in the UK until late next year at the earliest due to the pandemic and even then in front of very limited crowds. No reason to keep people on wages until then when no revenue is being produced. That said, there is nothing to invest now in Lions as there will be no games and there really is no need for further bailout loans to the BBL at the moment as there will be no activity that will generate revenue to pay them back. I also think that every governing body will have their hand out, including BE, BBF, not to mentioned other sports. I'm sure netball will be at top of the queue given the upcoming Commonwealth Games, for example. In the interim, this should be a time of reflection, staying safe and enjoying the company of loved ones. We are a long way to getting back to normal and sadly, all sports, including basketball will continue to be on hold for the foreseeable. We are in totally new territory and we are just at the beginning. To think otherwise is foolery. GetREAL!! |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 4, 2020 11:00:28 GMT
Almost every sport is in the queue for government support. Many business sectors as well. All with compelling cases.
Getreal makes a great point about basketball. Loans are no good for clubs that struggle to make ends meet even without the loan repayments.
The club's would ideally need grants but again as getreal says form a queue for those.
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Post by LTFan on May 7, 2020 15:50:36 GMT
Just so you're aware the nba pay to have games broadcast on sky/bt sport not the other way around. I disagree with almost everything GetReal is posting, and they’re a coward for continuing to post anonymously. But I have a history in broadcasting, and know a lot more about it than I do basketball, so I feel I do need to point out that Sky do pay the NBA for the U.K. rights. I’m not saying it’s a lot in the greater scheme of things, but the NBA aren’t paying them or giving it away for free. That sort of deal isn’t unheard of though even with major sports organisations - for example, the NFL give away their (limited) coverage to the BBC (but Sky pay for their more extensive coverage). Now where were we... ah yes, GetReal is a coward.  |
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Post by GetREAL on May 8, 2020 3:13:53 GMT
Just so you're aware the nba pay to have games broadcast on sky/bt sport not the other way around. I disagree with almost everything GetReal is posting, and they’re a coward for continuing to post anonymously. But I have a history in broadcasting, and know a lot more about it than I do basketball, so I feel I do need to point out that Sky do pay the NBA for the U.K. rights. I’m not saying it’s a lot in the greater scheme of things, but the NBA aren’t paying them or giving it away for free. That sort of deal isn’t unheard of though even with major sports organisations - for example, the NFL give away their (limited) coverage to the BBC (but Sky pay for their more extensive coverage). Now where were we... ah yes, GetReal is a coward. Not taking the bait mate! And good that we agree on at least one point! The coming month will reveal the accuracy of my points of view. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 9:08:12 GMT
Remember a few months back when abcd claimed all the royals stuff wed find out in a few weeks, what's the bet GetReal is the same
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 9:52:06 GMT
I'm not fussed whether GetReal is registered or not. Registering with an anonymous email address wouldn't make his/her opinions any more or less valid. The identity of some people on here is known, but there's plenty who are no more known than our unregistered friend. At least s/he isn't just posting "name is a pillock".
I am interested in knowing how s/he can be so certain that this whole thing will be a bust, though. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 8, 2020 11:13:41 GMT
He/she knows that. (Or at least he/should given everything else that is said). Basketball doesn’t sell dishes or subscriptions in the uk so not broadcaster will pay for it. The Coronavirus point is nonsense. Rugby league has just obtained a £16m loan above and beyond other government programs The rest of the diatribe is just a repeat of the previous generalised post. Yeah, I’m linked to eagles and am a trustee of the ecf. Happy to put my head above the parapet because having spent 10 years travelling all around the country and recruiting and speaking to players and agents from other leagues I think I am pretty well placed to assess the league and the perception of it from abroad. (in fact I can’t think of many who would be better placed). So, yeah shoot me down anonymously. Perhaps I should have posted as a guest too. I too am very well placed to address the perception of the league and of the governing bodies of basketball who continue to make a mockery of the sport. What does my anonymity matter if the point of a message board is for open debate but I will tell you that we've met on SEVERAL occasions. Trying to label me as misinformed about the game because I won't share/divulge personal information is just a weak position. I've been around the game in the UK and Europe for decades so I know my way around and very informed about the sport on ALL levels and love an intelligent debate with a fellow solicitor! On TV, no the NBA does not pay to be on Sky or BT. Where does one get that from? There may be a nominal deal in place for that content, but to suggest the NBA needs to pay to be on TV in the UK is ill informed. The games are produced in the US and live fed into the UK and in the case with Sky, they do an in-house program around it. Regarding the loan to Rugby League, yes you are right, they got a LOAN. And its RUGBY, so perhaps they would have at least a chance of paying it back. Not sure if Westminster cares enough about basketball to do anything more. So are you suggesting the BBL would want a loan? Would the clubs even be in the position to pay those back? Seems that having to repay loans will put further stress on the businesses once basketball played in front of fans returns. It's an impossible scenario. There is no way basketball will return in the UK until late next year at the earliest due to the pandemic and even then in front of very limited crowds. No reason to keep people on wages until then when no revenue is being produced. That said, there is nothing to invest now in Lions as there will be no games and there really is no need for further bailout loans to the BBL at the moment as there will be no activity that will generate revenue to pay them back. I also think that every governing body will have their hand out, including BE, BBF, not to mentioned other sports. I'm sure netball will be at top of the queue given the upcoming Commonwealth Games, for example. In the interim, this should be a time of reflection, staying safe and enjoying the company of loved ones. We are a long way to getting back to normal and sadly, all sports, including basketball will continue to be on hold for the foreseeable. We are in totally new territory and we are just at the beginning. To think otherwise is foolery. GetREAL!! Not sure what the fuss is about re this poster. All the above is well put and argued. If people disagree fair enough. But no need to attack the poster. We know even our strongest and well run clubs to date (Eagles and Riders) are in a struggle to survive. Both have made statements weeks ago to that effect. As I already said - loans won't help them really as they will be a long term burden on clubs that already have to make every penny count. Will grants come along. And will they be enough? There's another thread about head coaches in NBL 3 being big names next season. They might find their club is playing in a higher league if other clubs can't survive. Will the BBL itself survive this without grants? |
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Post by GetREAL on May 8, 2020 12:26:25 GMT
I'm not fussed whether GetReal is registered or not. Registering with an anonymous email address wouldn't make his/her opinions any more or less valid. The identity of some people on here is known, but there's plenty who are no more known than our unregistered friend. At least s/he isn't just posting "name is a pillock".
I am interested in knowing how s/he can be so certain that this whole thing will be a bust, though. Thank you Hersey for giving me the benefit of the doubt. That said, we all know there has been some pretty high profile and failed attempts to "save" professional basketball over the last decade. Huw Morgan with CSM/Lord Coe backed by some New York hedge fund that disintergrated under scrutiny and the illusionist Yank Ron Scott, who despite having an all star lineup, failed to stage a single event for nearly 15 years. To the credit of BBA/PLB/ABC or whatever they are going by these days, at least they did actually manage to convince investors to part with millions to back their plan and they had/have basketball people in their network. However, I would not count them out, seems this Scott bloke is like a nuclear beautiful wild bird, he keeps resurfacing. But not holding my breath on that one for sure. So, now, we have another group of Yanks, this time none have any basketball business experience, shady portfolio companies concentrated in insurance and annuities financing (seems right as Florida is ripe for ripping off pensioners) emerging out of the blue to take over Vince's team in the height of a pandemic! No announcement from them, or the BBL for that matter. There is also some stuff on the internet about them engaging in ripping off insurance recipients and for a private equity company with 3B under management, either they severely understaffed and underinvested, or this is all BS. I think the latter. What does it for me is there is absolutely NO BASKETBALL PEOPLE so to think they are just going to take a punt and keep Vince around to build a team to compete in Europe is more far fetched than the other attempts. So nothing is going to come of this I'd say. I'm not anti American in any way, but none of them have been successful and neither will this new set of clowns. |
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Post by GetREAL on May 8, 2020 12:28:55 GMT
* nuclear beautiful wild bird replaced beautiful wild bird on my spell check. HaHa
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 13:06:23 GMT
See, if you'd registered you'd be able to edit your post  |
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Post by GetREAL on May 8, 2020 13:17:04 GMT
See, if you'd registered you'd be able to edit your post You do have a point!!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 13:51:46 GMT
Get real, what team do you support?
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 8, 2020 14:43:50 GMT
I'm not fussed whether GetReal is registered or not. Registering with an anonymous email address wouldn't make his/her opinions any more or less valid. The identity of some people on here is known, but there's plenty who are no more known than our unregistered friend. At least s/he isn't just posting "name is a pillock".
I am interested in knowing how s/he can be so certain that this whole thing will be a bust, though. Thank you Hersey for giving me the benefit of the doubt. That said, we all know there has been some pretty high profile and failed attempts to "save" professional basketball over the last decade. Huw Morgan with CSM/Lord Coe backed by some New York hedge fund that disintergrated under scrutiny and the illusionist Yank Ron Scott, who despite having an all star lineup, failed to stage a single event for nearly 15 years. To the credit of BBA/PLB/ABC or whatever they are going by these days, at least they did actually manage to convince investors to part with millions to back their plan and they had/have basketball people in their network. However, I would not count them out, seems this Scott bloke is like a nuclear beautiful wild bird, he keeps resurfacing. But not holding my breath on that one for sure. So, now, we have another group of Yanks, this time none have any basketball business experience, shady portfolio companies concentrated in insurance and annuities financing (seems right as Florida is ripe for ripping off pensioners) emerging out of the blue to take over Vince's team in the height of a pandemic! No announcement from them, or the BBL for that matter. There is also some stuff on the internet about them engaging in ripping off insurance recipients and for a private equity company with 3B under management, either they severely understaffed and underinvested, or this is all BS. I think the latter. What does it for me is there is absolutely NO BASKETBALL PEOPLE so to think they are just going to take a punt and keep Vince around to build a team to compete in Europe is more far fetched than the other attempts. So nothing is going to come of this I'd say. I'm not anti American in any way, but none of them have been successful and neither will this new set of clowns. Its certainly a strange investment to make at the absolute worst time Lions would have been free to buy (I mean rescue) even before Covid I imagine |
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Post by GetREAL on May 8, 2020 16:01:51 GMT
Thank you Hersey for giving me the benefit of the doubt. That said, we all know there has been some pretty high profile and failed attempts to "save" professional basketball over the last decade. Huw Morgan with CSM/Lord Coe backed by some New York hedge fund that disintergrated under scrutiny and the illusionist Yank Ron Scott, who despite having an all star lineup, failed to stage a single event for nearly 15 years. To the credit of BBA/PLB/ABC or whatever they are going by these days, at least they did actually manage to convince investors to part with millions to back their plan and they had/have basketball people in their network. However, I would not count them out, seems this Scott bloke is like a nuclear beautiful wild bird, he keeps resurfacing. But not holding my breath on that one for sure. So, now, we have another group of Yanks, this time none have any basketball business experience, shady portfolio companies concentrated in insurance and annuities financing (seems right as Florida is ripe for ripping off pensioners) emerging out of the blue to take over Vince's team in the height of a pandemic! No announcement from them, or the BBL for that matter. There is also some stuff on the internet about them engaging in ripping off insurance recipients and for a private equity company with 3B under management, either they severely understaffed and underinvested, or this is all BS. I think the latter. What does it for me is there is absolutely NO BASKETBALL PEOPLE so to think they are just going to take a punt and keep Vince around to build a team to compete in Europe is more far fetched than the other attempts. So nothing is going to come of this I'd say. I'm not anti American in any way, but none of them have been successful and neither will this new set of clowns. Its certainly a strange investment to make at the absolute worst time Lions would have been free to buy (I mean rescue) even before Covid I imagine Here's an idea. Not that I'm qualified, but if I led the BBL, I would have totally overhauled its structure into one commercial entity that would have aggregate amount of ticket sales and commercial revenue. I would have offered existing team personnel a salary and incentive and share options. If done this way, it would have been easier to raise investment as an investor would be investing in a single entity with recurring revenue. I'm not sure what the total amount of ticket and commercial revenue is for ALL the clubs, plus the BBL Cup and Finals, but at least the single entity would have bankable turnover to raise capital against. I would have streamlined the board and dropped the current system of one seat per club and install a 5 person board with some top NBA/Euroleague experienced exec, some City type and some top sports marketing exec. And I would build out a proper management team at league level. I would have gotten FIBA more involved because it is in their best interest that basketball works in the UK and they could help with marketing, events, ideas etc. And then I would have gone back to the Government for financial assistance. This should have been done BEFORE the pandemic because now, there is a real prospect that there will be a severe downturn in turnover for all clubs and the league which will last for at least a few years. So having a club here and there bring on new individual investor does not help the league, if anything it hurts the league as there is no commercial parity and it also seems governance is lacking at the league and the BBL levels. Not to mention we've witnessed so many clubs coming and going over the year with so called "new club investors". So many other collective ideas could have worked to not end up in this position. I would have not built arenas in Leicester and Newcastle until there was real strength in London and major cities, was on proper TV with league wide sponsors and had substantial private money behind the league. But that's me. I know its easy to be an armchair critic but one can dream and I do fancy a lively, constructive, challenging debate!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 16:19:31 GMT
You are Ron Scott. I claim my £5
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Post by GetREAL on May 8, 2020 16:23:19 GMT
You are Ron Scott. I claim my £5 No. You are wayyy off mate. Nice try though. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 16:28:30 GMT
That was (more or less) his model
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