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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 8:34:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 8:46:30 GMT
Hmmm. I get there are issues for the clubs that own their venues (does that include Worcester?) but what overheads do other clubs have over the summer? They can furlough their staff, there is some money available from Sport England through BE and the community projects will return soon after the schools do. I'm not suggesting there are no issues, the loss of the final league games would obviously have had an impact, but I don't think this is as bad as the article paints. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 9:03:06 GMT
Most clubs will have had the season ended abruptly owing money to all sorts of people including players and staff plus taxes and vat.
To have your income stop overnight but an array of bills to pay is the nightmare scenario for any business.
those debts won't magically disappear.
The same clubs even if they ere allowed to sell season tickets for something will have amuch harder sell and a much lower fan base prepared to buy
this season hasn't even been able to finish
Clubs will owe venues, bus companies, kit and merchandise suppliers and lots more. Plus they will have staff who they can't furlough. Unless they totally shut up shop.
They will likely have overdrafts with no chance of repaying.
And don't hold your breath on how quick community basketball projects will be able to start again with social distancing. It's a big enough challenge getting kids back to school. The curren talk is some year groups won't be going back to school at all this year.
Do you not understand how cash flow works and do you only read the good news stories?
you are living in a dream world if you can't recognise the issues?
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Post by ko25 on Apr 30, 2020 9:28:32 GMT
Most clubs will have had the season ended abruptly owing money to all sorts of people including players and staff plus taxes and vat. Clubs will owe venues, bus companies, kit and merchandise suppliers and lots more. Plus they will have staff who they can't furlough. Unless they totally shut up shop. I'm struggling to understand this as for clubs that don't own their own venue what exactly are they paying it's only basically a month or so less than the actual season their main costs would be venue and players wages. The venue hasn't been used and the players will be furloughed. They aren't relying on prize money or TV money not paying the payers is a huge chunk. They don't pay for kit as it's supplied merch is just standing stock anyway. "If basketball at the top level suffers, then basketball at the grassroots suffers." from the article I'm really not convinced on that unless it's Riders and Eagles I very much doubt the BBL has that much effect on grassroots basketball? |
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Post by romsfordlad on Apr 30, 2020 9:54:54 GMT
Hmmm. I get there are issues for the clubs that own their venues (does that include Worcester?) but what overheads do other clubs have over the summer? They can furlough their staff, there is some money available from Sport England through BE and the community projects will return soon after the schools do. I'm not suggesting there are no issues, the loss of the final league games would obviously have had an impact, but I don't think this is as bad as the article paints. I agree with you, however this will last far beyond the summer and which clubs can go a full season without games until 2021? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 10:00:28 GMT
I agree with all of that. The taxman and the VAT man aren't banging on doors for companies who are (relatively) up-to-date, the Americans who've gone home have effectively terminated their own contracts. Bus companies aren't going to be paid for journeys they haven't made and merchandise stock should have already been paid for. obviously if a club has loads of unpaid bills, they're clearly in trouble, but that would have been the case anyway
Riders and Eagles are the exceptions to all of this both with having their own venues and their grassroots work
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Post by Fanofthegame3 on Apr 30, 2020 11:05:24 GMT
You will also find as basketball players you can’t furloughed them, how do you furlough someone you may not bring back next season ?
Some clubs also have contracts with players till longer dates after the season is finished to cover coaching etc- what about players rent that would still be due if your having to house these players ? Who is covering that as a lot of clubs can’t use the government back schemes.. the loss of income that was lost which would have been needed to start next season up, what happens when clubs can’t afford to re register teams or license players ?
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Post by ko25 on Apr 30, 2020 11:09:44 GMT
You will also find as basketball players you can’t furloughed them, how do you furlough someone you may not bring back next season ? But you're not doing it for next season it's for the current season. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 11:17:20 GMT
Most clubs will have had the season ended abruptly owing money to all sorts of people including players and staff plus taxes and vat. Clubs will owe venues, bus companies, kit and merchandise suppliers and lots more. Plus they will have staff who they can't furlough. Unless they totally shut up shop. I'm struggling to understand this as for clubs that don't own their own venue what exactly are they paying it's only basically a month or so less than the actual season their main costs would be venue and players wages. The venue hasn't been used and the players will be furloughed. They aren't relying on prize money or TV money not paying the payers is a huge chunk. They don't pay for kit as it's supplied merch is just standing stock anyway. "If basketball at the top level suffers, then basketball at the grassroots suffers." from the article I'm really not convinced on that unless it's Riders and Eagles I very much doubt the BBL has that much effect on grassroots basketball? The ones who don't own venues have to pay to hire them. They will be in arrears by and large. I believe Lions and Royals owed fortunes on their venues. They will be in arrears for bus companies. They may have overdrafts they've used and credit cards etc to pay to fly players home early unexpectedly etc And they would be planning to pay what they owe with money still due to come in from matches, sponsors and early bird season ticket sales and other stuff Riders end of year awards dinner makes 10k plus normally The German football clubs need their final quarter TV money to pay creditors they already owe not to cover their costs now Sports clubs struggle to make ends meet as it is It's not the costs they aren't now paying they have to worry about It's what they will already owe (including tax and vat etc) that they don't have and at the same time cannot see the next time they can bring any income in If a club barely broke even before what chance has it got in the future starting off with a pile of debts it already can't afford and with less income from matches and sponsors (as no doubt many sponsors will fall away) Re community work. The club's probably owe many venues for the cost of hire for that as well as their own venue hire. Again they will be mostly on monthly invoice. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 11:20:45 GMT
I agree with all of that. The taxman and the VAT man aren't banging on doors for companies who are (relatively) up-to-date, the Americans who've gone home have effectively terminated their own contracts. Bus companies aren't going to be paid for journeys they haven't made and merchandise stock should have already been paid for. obviously if a club has loads of unpaid bills, they're clearly in trouble, but that would have been the case anyway Riders and Eagles are the exceptions to all of this both with having their own venues and their grassroots work I would be amazed if most of the club's aren't paying as much as they can on invoice and they will owe lots out. Although the taxman and vatman aren't banging on doors those debts will just be added to the other debts owed and if you own a club with big debts and no sign of any income and know even when you can get incomes it's going to be less than normal then you've got problems that aren't just going to go away |
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Post by ko25 on Apr 30, 2020 13:22:37 GMT
Maybe I'm wrong but I think you think there are more outgoings for a basketball club than their actually are.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 14:00:55 GMT
Maybe I'm wrong but I think you think there are more outgoings for a basketball club than their actually are. Admin staff, office costs, insurance, travel, feeding the players, housing the players, flying players in and out, visa costs, kit, player wages, coach wages, player support staff wages, fees for credit card handling fees, website and social media costs, medical fees, car insurance for the players, NI, Vat, taxes, venue hire for matches and training or full venue fees if owned, venue plus insurance, rates, light, heat, electric etc. Interest on any loans. Leasing of office equipment, printing costs, league fees, off the top of my head that's probably less than half of them given two minutes thought I keep seeing people say the wages are furloughed Clubs pay their staff and players one month in arrears. By the time furlough came in and clubs could sign staff up there would probably be close to a month of salaries they can't claim back at a time when the income had already stopped That alone could make some clubs insolvent knowing how close to the edge they were to start with I bet some players and staff are still waiting for monies owed now and most suppliers in the exact same boat Anyone who owns a business will be able to tell you customers have stopped paying suppliers by and large Our BBL clubs will be no different. You can't pay what you don't have. Hence why BBL are hoping for Government support for the clubs |
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Post by LTFan on Apr 30, 2020 14:51:37 GMT
I'm struggling to understand this as for clubs that don't own their own venue what exactly are they paying it's only basically a month or so less than the actual season their main costs would be venue and players wages. The venue hasn't been used and the players will be furloughed. They aren't relying on prize money or TV money not paying the payers is a huge chunk. They don't pay for kit as it's supplied merch is just standing stock anyway. "If basketball at the top level suffers, then basketball at the grassroots suffers." from the article I'm really not convinced on that unless it's Riders and Eagles I very much doubt the BBL has that much effect on grassroots basketball? No they don't, not if the venues are the ones cancelling the bookings - under instruction from the government. I'm not saying BBL teams don't have continuous financial outgoings, but most of those stop if they aren't playing games - especially if the BBL teams themselves aren't the ones deciding they can't take place. They sort of just go into hibernation - with no money coming in and little money going out. Riders and Eagles are obvious exceptions due to owning their own venues. |
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Post by Fanofthegame3 on Apr 30, 2020 15:53:51 GMT
You will also find as basketball players you can’t furloughed them, how do you furlough someone you may not bring back next season ? But you're not doing it for next season it's for the current season. But in d1 season has ended and let’s be honest bbl won’t resume this season so you can’t guarantee there jobs |
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Post by connors on Apr 30, 2020 16:43:20 GMT
Some good points here but one that most resonates with me is that grass roots basketball in this country is not really linked to or dependent on BBL.
As a coach and volunteer at a Medium sized junior and senior club we have zero outgoings and can re-start the moment we are allowed to. The only worry is drop off in kids interest and the adults expanding waistlines.......
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Post by ko25 on Apr 30, 2020 19:59:26 GMT
Some good points here but one that most resonates with me is that grass roots basketball in this country is not really linked to or dependent on BBL. As a coach and volunteer at a Medium sized junior and senior club we have zero outgoings and can re-start the moment we are allowed to. The only worry is drop off in kids interest and the adults expanding waistlines....... Yep I have the same thoughts although in the back of my mind I have the slight concern of if the school decides to not hire the hall out again or the sports centre goes bust then we're screwed. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 20:20:42 GMT
The ones who don't own venues have to pay to hire them. No they don't, not if the venues are the ones cancelling the bookings - under instruction from the government. I'm not saying BBL teams don't have continuous financial outgoings, but most of those stop if they aren't playing games - especially if the BBL teams themselves aren't the ones deciding they can't take place. They sort of just go into hibernation - with no money coming in and little money going out. Riders and Eagles are obvious exceptions due to owning their own venues. They will owe for games played. Normally with income coming in to pay what is owed. The season will have ended prematurely and the club's will have debts to the venues and many others and now no way of paying those debts as no income for foreseeable future. And meanwhile whatever costs they still face monthly will add to those debts. The club's could be able to get government loan support but that's just another debts for clubs that barely break even as it stands. They will want grants or donations. The owners will not want to take on more debts with no visible way out of this for some time. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 21:02:54 GMT
Do you ever stop? Or even slow down?
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Post by interestedridersfan on Apr 30, 2020 21:58:06 GMT
Do you ever stop? Or even slow down? Yet another useless contribution to a thread Can you stop this saddo stalking me please KO25? If not it will just ruin the threads same as before |
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Post by Oakland free press on Apr 30, 2020 22:06:36 GMT
Do you ever stop? Or even slow down? Why do you think you are king of this forum David? Everyone to you is a basketball kit and no one knows more about basketball than you? Just because you coach a kids team and wrote a column for a minor NBL team’s programme. Why you feel the need to write on here and your blog? You’re not a nice person. A small minded and small bodied speccy bully |
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Post by ko25 on Apr 30, 2020 22:47:39 GMT
t3725
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