|
|
Post by blueskies99 on Aug 21, 2020 12:13:07 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 12:16:53 GMT
Well that was never going to happen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 12:16:57 GMT
That's fair. Everyone should play by the same rules, regardless of if they were in Europe or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by casualhook on Aug 21, 2020 12:26:21 GMT
Yeah I can’t see why they’d accept this really
|
|
|
|
Post by interestedridersfan on Aug 21, 2020 13:08:48 GMT
Lol
I'm amazed Vince even asked the question?
But then again if you don't ask you don't get
And he seems to get what he wants quite a lot
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 14:03:14 GMT
This is so unfair! Do the other club owners not realise that British players don't know how to play.
Imagine how the British players he has signed feel when he said he could only win with yanks
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 14:10:07 GMT
That's fair. Everyone should play by the same rules, regardless of if they were in Europe or not. It would have applied to all clubs. But It would have ended a long stsnding bbl rule that most other leagues don't have. 14 should be plenty. It's not 3 games every week. They clearly have the money for extra bodies if needed |
|
jumbo
Bench Player
Posts: 158 
|
Post by jumbo on Aug 21, 2020 15:06:44 GMT
Personally wouldn't have a problem with clubs rotating import players if they can afford to pay players that don't play and make it work with the salary cap. Feel like the cap is important to keep some competitive balance. But don't see why they can't rotate as long as all of the players salaries count against the cap (apart from the current exemptions).
Presumably they could bring in two more that are only registered to play in Europe if they wanted to?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 15:30:17 GMT
Realistically it can't be done inside the current salary cap. But 7nless their players are on big bpnuses for appearances/wins in Europe (and they argue that has nothing to dpwith the BBL) I can't see how they're inside the cap anyway
|
|
|
|
Post by interestedridersfan on Aug 21, 2020 15:42:34 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Solly on Aug 21, 2020 15:52:50 GMT
Just 13 minutes between the above post and the preceding post by that other WhatsBev heavyweight hersey427.
I see trouble ahead  (especially if hersey is browned off about having to quarantine when he returns from Croatia  ).
|
|
|
|
Post by Steven McTowelie on Aug 21, 2020 16:23:25 GMT
I'm with IRF. I'm amazed they've even asked this. I actually find the comparison to Riders' 2018/19 campaign quite irritating as Lions' are very obviously playing a completely different game to us. There were a number of factors that contributed to our effort not going particularly well, including injuries and unhelpful scheduling. But I'm confident that the biggest factor by far was that we didn't spend extravagantly and ultimately did not assemble a roster that was good enough to make any sort of impression at that level. I hardly think Vince can claim to have that same problem. He's had a relative treasure chest to spend here and has assembled a roster that must be the envy of every BBL coach for... a long time. And still the guy wants more.
Given the lingering uncertainty regarding our domestic season, it's surely possible that Lions will not even have a particularly demanding schedule to manage during the early portion of their European campaign. And even if they do have a BBL schedule to play, it will presumably only be sleepy group stage Cup games, not the significantly more important league fixtures that Riders were having to play. I'm clearly interested to see how this experimented plays out. And I'll be doing my best to root for them in Europe. But I don't think stuff like this will endear Lions to fans of other BBL clubs. I reckon every other coach in the league (including certainly Rob) would snap your arm off if you offered them a chance to give Europe a go with the embarrassment of riches Vince already has.
Rant aside, I find it interesting that they apparently still have the requisite funds to sign two more Americans and remain within whatever the hell their budget is this season. Think it maybe adds further credence to what one or two have said regarding the size of this squad. I really don't think anyone has 'slated' Lions for assembling a deep roster. I think the suggestion has simply been that with regards to the bench, less could perhaps have been more. If you pooled together whatever money they were hoping to pay their 5th and 6th Americans with whatever money they're paying some of the fairly obsolete looking backups on this roster, that could surely buy them one or two players capable of making a real impact? Would they not have a better chance if they binned some of the towel wavers and ran with 11 or 12?
|
|
|
|
Post by allstring on Aug 21, 2020 16:39:11 GMT
The BBL has previously allowed teams to exceed a salary cap by rotating players though and specifically to play in Europe; so Vince isn't requesting something that is entirely unique; although on this occasion it is specific to exceeding the number of work permit players.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 16:55:19 GMT
I'm with IRF. I'm amazed they've even asked this. I actually find the comparison to Riders' 2018/19 campaign quite irritating as Lions' are very obviously playing a completely different game to us. There were a number of factors that contributed to our effort not going particularly well, including injuries and unhelpful scheduling. But I'm confident that the biggest factor by far was that we didn't spend extravagantly and ultimately did not assemble a roster that was good enough to make any sort of impression at that level. I hardly think Vince can claim to have that same problem. He's had a relative treasure chest to spend here and has assembled a roster that must be the envy of every BBL coach for... a long time. And still the guy wants more. Given the lingering uncertainty regarding our domestic season, it's surely possible that Lions will not even have a particularly demanding schedule to manage during the early portion of their European campaign. And even if they do have a BBL schedule to play, it will presumably only be sleepy group stage Cup games, not the significantly more important league fixtures that Riders were having to play. I'm clearly interested to see how this experimented plays out. And I'll be doing my best to root for them in Europe. But I don't think stuff like this will endear Lions to fans of other BBL clubs. I reckon every other coach in the league (including certainly Rob) would snap your arm off if you offered them a chance to give Europe a go with the embarrassment of riches Vince already has. Rant aside, I find it interesting that they apparently still have the requisite funds to sign two more Americans and remain within whatever the hell their budget is this season. Think it maybe adds further credence to what one or two have said regarding the size of this squad. I really don't think anyone has 'slated' Lions for assembling a deep roster. I think the suggestion has simply been that with regards to the bench, less could perhaps have been more. If you pooled together whatever money they were hoping to pay their 5th and 6th Americans with whatever money they're paying some of the fairly obsolete looking backups on this roster, that could surely buy them one or two players capable of making a real impact? Would they not have a better chance if they binned some of the towel wavers and ran with 11 or 12? Want some cheese with those sour grapes mate? |
|
jumbo
Bench Player
Posts: 158
|
Post by jumbo on Aug 21, 2020 17:17:46 GMT
Realistically it can't be done inside the current salary cap. But 7nless their players are on big bpnuses for appearances/wins in Europe (and they argue that has nothing to dpwith the BBL) I can't see how they're inside the cap anyway Yeah you're probably right. How much do other benefits count towards the cap though? I'm sure it's the same at some other clubs but Riders have had some good import/euro players on team friendly deals because of the uni link. Remember Tyler's deal being described as 'the best value deal in the league' and that was before he played a game for us and exceeded most people's expectations. Plus everyone's favourite role player Eric Robertson. DNH this year. Would anything to do with their place at the uni count towards the cap? Same with things like accommodation, cars etc or just what they get paid. Yeah would be interested to know what they're paying Liggins and how they've fit everything under the cap. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 17:33:22 GMT
The BBL has previously allowed teams to exceed a salary cap by rotating players though and specifically to play in Europe; so Vince isn't requesting something that is entirely unique; although on this occasion it is specific to exceeding the number of work permit players. Really? Bullets rotated within their allowed number of roster changes. Turkeys don't generally vote for Christmas, i can't imagine the other BBL club would vote for something that effectively made one of their rivals immune to injuries. |
|
|
|
Post by interestedridersfan on Aug 21, 2020 17:34:06 GMT
Realistically it can't be done inside the current salary cap. But 7nless their players are on big bpnuses for appearances/wins in Europe (and they argue that has nothing to dpwith the BBL) I can't see how they're inside the cap anyway Yeah you're probably right. How much do other benefits count towards the cap though? I'm sure it's the same at some other clubs but Riders have had some good import/euro players on team friendly deals because of the uni link. Remember Tyler's deal being described as 'the best value deal in the league' and that was before he played a game for us and exceeded most people's expectations. Plus everyone's favourite role player Eric Robertson. DNH this year. Would anything to do with their place at the uni count towards the cap? Same with things like accommodation, cars etc or just what they get paid. Yeah would be interested to know what they're paying Liggins and how they've fit everything under the cap. Tyler also earnt money managing some or our commercial work at the club. Lived in a nice house, club car etc. As well as the Masters degree. I don't think salary caps ever work in any sports myself. Too many ways around them. Look at Saracens Rugby. Their players ended up being employed by the other businesses of the owner on the side and investing in property with the owner. Plus he would set them up in businesses when they retired etc. Lots of ways to reward players other than salary. They eventually got in trouble over it All of the above in many ways should have been applauded I think they won too many trophies though whilst he did it |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 17:34:50 GMT
Just 13 minutes between the above post and the preceding post by that other WhatsBev heavyweight hersey427.
I see trouble ahead (especially if hersey is browned off about having to quarantine when he returns from Croatia ).
I am the man. i rule this sport. i take offence at being called a heavyweight, though. Despite my age and alcohol consumption, i am remarkably slim. i base this on not eating .You should all try it.
That's four wrong guesses.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 17:44:10 GMT
Asking for a salary cap increase with only a (potential) couple of months left until the season starts because you'd like more players is poor form. All other teams are working towards building a competitive roster within the limitations during a time when they all have to consider money quite strictly due to the uncertainty of fans being allowed in etc. and London ask for more? It's nothing more than wanting to buy the league.
They can say it's about Europe all they like but they've got enough f--king players already. You shouldn't need a Europe roster and a BBL roster and if you do then you're not one team, you're two.
"But they'll get tiiired" - They're paid athletes. If they're tired, get someone in who isn't. Basketball players should be used to playing multiple games in a week. Not like you'er going to give all FOURTEEN guys 40 minutes a game.
|
|
|
|
Post by samgray on Aug 21, 2020 20:00:58 GMT
Isn’t rotating Americans fairly standard in a number European leagues though?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 20:06:24 GMT
It is.
We're also unique (i think) in limiting how many imports we can have in a season.
I don't think that's a bad thing
|
|
|
|
Post by samgray on Aug 21, 2020 20:56:52 GMT
I completely get and agree with the limit on americans you can employ in any one season and think it’s a good rule... I do however think teams should be allowed to sign them all and rotate them if they can. It’s a pro league and if it supports lions success in Europe that would be huge for the BBL as a whole
|
|
|
|
Post by massiveridersfan on Aug 21, 2020 21:56:53 GMT
Not really a 'setback for the Lions' though, is it?
|
|
|
|
Post by samgray on Aug 21, 2020 22:16:45 GMT
Not really a 'setback for the Lions' though, is it? I imagine they are disappointed. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 23:26:08 GMT
I completely get and agree with the limit on americans you can employ in any one season and think it’s a good rule... I do however think teams should be allowed to sign them all and rotate them if they can. It’s a pro league and if it supports lions success in Europe that would be huge for the BBL as a whole Maybe it's worth a look into with 12 months for teams to consider it rather than 2? Also asking to raise the salary cap when you know nobody else is going to reach it? Tactless. Again, give it 12 months for teams to consider, not last minute. |
|
). 
