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Post by baldereagle on Oct 5, 2020 21:17:26 GMT
I hope everyone is signing the request for a £1M government funding for the BBL, if only to look at the map to see where all the basketball fans are located .... petition.parliament.uk/petitions/324801
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 21:24:07 GMT
They nees more than a million
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2NFR
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Post by 2NFR on Oct 6, 2020 12:06:29 GMT
Done. 11,064 at the last count ... Govt should have responded after 10,000 ...but hav'nt If gets to 100,000 apparently it gets mentioned in Parliament ... we can only hope
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Post by reallyoldfeenixfan on Oct 6, 2020 13:44:43 GMT
Posted and shared around the Nix area, over 150 in our near area, gone red on that map. But more needed and TBH don't expect much response from the government.
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Post by LTFan on Oct 6, 2020 14:44:08 GMT
They nees more than a million £1M is what Sir Rodney Walker requested. Having heard the grant that 5th tier football recently got for the government I'm thinking he should have asked for more. Maybe he thought there'd be better chance of getting something if he went low... better to ask for £1M and get it, than ask for £5M and get nothing.
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Post by LTFan on Oct 6, 2020 14:46:10 GMT
Done. 11,064 at the last count ... Govt should have responded after 10,000 ...but hav'nt If gets to 100,000 apparently it gets mentioned in Parliament ... we can only hope The government will respond. After 10,000 signature they always do. But it can sometimes take quite a while to get a response. And sometimes it's a relatively standard one. Let's just hope it strengthens the case for the £1M the BBL has requested.
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Post by guytinternet on Oct 6, 2020 22:08:43 GMT
I can’t find any reference regarding what the BBL would do with the £1m, has it been publicised anywhere?
Is it to enable the games to be played behind closed doors - compensating the clubs for lack of income? Or to keep the clubs ticking over until the league can start with fans?
Sorry for the questions - appreciate the answers might not be in the public domain. Signed the petition anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 11:51:18 GMT
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Post by guytinternet on Oct 7, 2020 20:46:13 GMT
One issue the BBL may have to overcome if it is to obtain government funding is how many livelihoods are actually lost if the BBL doesn’t exist?
The majority of money paid to players will be to oversees players - cant see them being high on the list of the British govts priorities
How many FT staff are employed by the clubs? I get the impression they rely heavily on volunteers? Individual clubs will differ but there probably aren’t many people’s livelihoods at stake here.
The BBL is basically a private club with 11 members, cynically I can’t see the govt rushing to its aid. And the NBL with its university teams and generally less professional setups could face the same issue.
As a basketball fan hopefully I’m wrong but at some point the government is going to start prioritising the saving of those industries that have the biggest economic impact on the population. I struggle to see where basketball fits into this. Choices have to be made as their isn’t an endless supply of magical money trees.
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Post by LTFan on Oct 8, 2020 13:32:48 GMT
One issue the BBL may have to overcome if it is to obtain government funding is how many livelihoods are actually lost if the BBL doesn’t exist? The majority of money paid to players will be to oversees players - cant see them being high on the list of the British govts priorities How many FT staff are employed by the clubs? I get the impression they rely heavily on volunteers? Individual clubs will differ but there probably aren’t many people’s livelihoods at stake here. The BBL is basically a private club with 11 members, cynically I can’t see the govt rushing to its aid. And the NBL with its university teams and generally less professional setups could face the same issue. As a basketball fan hopefully I’m wrong but at some point the government is going to start prioritising the saving of those industries that have the biggest economic impact on the population. I struggle to see where basketball fits into this. Choices have to be made as their isn’t an endless supply of magical money trees. I don't disagree, and I'm no expert on these matters, but couldn't you say the same about the National League (the fifth tier of English football)... and they recently got a multi-million pound grant from the government.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2020 13:46:48 GMT
It's 80-90 percent full-time, although there's an argument again government propping up untenable businesses. It's the two regional divisions that have no place being considered either elite or fully pro
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Post by davef on Oct 8, 2020 13:52:21 GMT
Going back a few months it was pointed out on here that at the Eagles Commmunity Foundation we employ (either part time or full time) 90 separate staff. Now only 15 (I think) are full time and due to Covid a Number of arena staff have already been made redundant, but there is still a significant staff base. Some will be able to continue without govt funding (particularly as kids sport is not yet curtailed) but some may not.
But I wouldn’t underestimate the fact that there is a developing basketball economy within certain clubs. Add that to the community impact and minority impact should clubs go down then I think the case for (relatively minimal) funding to cover the next few months is stronger than you make out.
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Post by guytinternet on Oct 8, 2020 17:53:29 GMT
Think it’s fair to say that eagles are most definitely an outlier in terms of its community outreach work - but didn’t you point out recently that the Arena and ECF are financially independent of (or at least not reliant on) the Eagles BBL team?
This brings me back to what the BBL would actually do with the money they’ve asked for? If it’s mainly to put on the games behind closed doors, employing a couple of dozen or so Americans and entertaining a few hundred fans a week on YouTube (very simplistic way of looking at it I know) then it’s probably not going to be seen as a great use of public money. Unfortunately football is always going to be treated preferentially as it is the National sport and is firmly planted in the public psyche. Basically it’s a vote winner. Even at Conference level.
If the cash is to ensure the work of the ECF and similar (does any other BBL teams community activities come close to this) continues then its a different argument. Don’t charitable works have other pots of monies available to them?
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Post by davef on Oct 8, 2020 18:16:17 GMT
Yes. That’s why I say some will continue without government support but some may not.
They are separate organisations but there is some crossover. For instance the club hires the arena from the foundation for game nights. Similarly there is a secondary spend agreement between the organisations. Against that the foundation pays staff for the hoops 4 health program (which includes Men’s and women’s players for limited appearances).
So there is a real risk that curtailment of pro games will impact negatively on community programs and jobs in our basketball economy. It won’t ruin the foundation but will likely impact negatively on it. Like everything in this world it’s not black and white.
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Post by guytinternet on Oct 8, 2020 21:30:33 GMT
Thanks for taking the time to reply Dave
Sooner (rather than later) the crowds have to be let back in, in as safe a way as possible.
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Post by dandayr on Oct 8, 2020 22:51:11 GMT
This brings me back to what the BBL would actually do with the money they’ve asked for? If it’s mainly to put on the games behind closed doors, employing a couple of dozen or so Americans and entertaining a few hundred fans a week on YouTube (very simplistic way of looking at it I know) then it’s probably not going to be seen as a great use of public money. I've not worked out if it is a deliberate windup to bait someone like me to reply, or a genuine not understanding of the greater restrictions basketball imposes on squads compared to football and even ice-hockey for example. The americans are the minority and brits are the majority - based on a quick scan of the info on the pinned rosters post on this site. Looks like 77 in the current listed squads are brits and something like 33 are classed as imports. Even if some are misclassed, imports are the minority. Also the role of the players - brits, europeans or imports - is more than just game day. For example Rocks players get involved in community programs and go into schools over a large area and take part in delivering education programs about health and anti smoking anti drugs for example. So the people getting an income from the sport are more brits than non brits and the squads do more than just entertain on game day and get involved in outreach community programs as well as basketball programs. rather see my tax money support things like this than a multi-billion industry that thinks nothing of paying £60m to move one human being from living and playing in one city to doing the same in another city while throwing £250k into the persons bank account
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Post by MansfieldMike on Oct 8, 2020 23:47:13 GMT
Daily Telegraph article
Professional basketball will resume in Britain this month after the sport’s leaders were given sufficient reassurances by Government that it would receive a coronavirus bail-out. Telegraph Sport has been told ministers have made it clear to the game that they are looking to support it, four months after they rejected an application from the British Basketball League for a £1 million rescue loan amid fears clubs were on the brink of going bust. An announcement that the BBL will resume behind closed doors on October 30 is planned on Friday on the basis of reassurances received this week from the Government. Basketball last month submitted a whole-sport application for a bail-out worth up to £4m, the bulk based on losses BBL clubs expected to make if forced to play an entire season behind closed doors. How much of that it could expect to receive was unclear on Thursday night, including what proportion of it would be in grants and in loans. But, as with other sports bodies who have submitted emergency funding applications, any figure was expected to be limited to underwriting lost gate receipts. As revealed by Telegraph Sport, football’s National League last month became the first sports body the Government agreed to bail out following the latter’s decision to scrap the planned October 1 return of crowds in the sector. It did so in order to allow the competition to begin on Saturday and stop North and South division clubs withdrawing from the FA Cup. The BBL saw its own need for such a pledge as almost as urgent given the concerns that some clubs were close to going under. Telegraph Sport revealed in June that the Government had rejected an application by the BBL for a £1 million rescue loan, £15 million less than it handed rugby league to stop it collapsing. The BBL had asked ministers to reconsider, stressing basketball’s popularity within the UK’s black and ethnic minority communities. The league wrote to the Government in April asking for more than £2 million but revised that figure down after benefiting from the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme and other state aid. The Government handed an emergency loan to rugby league in May after it emerged the sport was on the brink of collapse a year out from England hosting the World Cup. The BBL and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport declined to comment.
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Post by guytinternet on Oct 9, 2020 7:24:02 GMT
dandayr - no deliberate wind up intended. My point on import numbers was a financial one, not a numerical one.
In an earlier post I’d already stated that ‘The majority of money paid to players will be to oversees players’ if this is wrong, it’s still not a wind up.
Great news about the reported bail-out, let the games begin!
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Post by connors on Oct 9, 2020 8:51:30 GMT
It is great news about the bail out. I hope it is not just BBL but also at least the top level NBL too?
I agree with guyinternet that football will always be seen differently for the reasons he mentions. There is no real benefit anymore to the Premier League propping up the lower part of the pyramid. They are not obliged to. Just like Amazon are not obliged to help out every small retail business struggling at the moment either. The Premier League is a world of its own. It barely even relies on the lower leagues to develop talent for it anymore. They use their academy systems to hoover up every scrap of talent they can around the world like great big fishing trawlers!
I think one thing is clear is that elite sport without crowds is a different proposition and ultimately not quite as fun to watch on TV. There are examples of where in the arts audiences are being allowed in now in the sort of numbers that would massively help a lot of sports including basketball.
I think the Royal Albert Hall has an event coming up where the audience will be around 40ish% of normal. Even 33% at football stadiums would be a massive help and of course the same for other sports like ours too.
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Post by LTFan on Oct 9, 2020 11:54:09 GMT
Great news about the government bail-out. And a 30th October start for the season, also great news. Assuming all this is correct of course.
Even if it's limited to underwriting lost gate receipts I'd say this is a good result, in the hope its a grant and not a loan.
And the BBL/teams may be able to supplement that further by PPV streaming games, assuming they don't have to declare that as some kind of 'virtual gate receipt'. I know PPV streaming isn't enough to fund behind closed doors games, but I think there's enough demand to provide a significant financial boost alongside this bail out. I'd be happy to pay the seemingly going rate of £5 a game to watch Lions throughout this season, or to pay a lot more and buy a Lions (or full BBL) 'virtual' season ticket.
Hopefully these are the sort of things the BBL and the teams are going to look at over the coming 3 weeks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2020 14:43:15 GMT
I imagine there will be an expectation that clubs will bring in aome PPV money, and some costs reduced as well. And they'll knock vat off
And i won't start spending the cash till it arrives
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Post by reallyoldfeenixfan on Oct 9, 2020 15:03:10 GMT
4 p.m. Friday afternoon, no announcement yet made. Presumably whoever wrote the article in the Telegraph does know what they're talking about? Are all the comments being made using that report as the only evidence or are people getting their information from other sources? Would have though the BBL/ somewhere would have been posting something?
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Post by rideralex on Oct 9, 2020 15:07:30 GMT
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Post by faz on Oct 9, 2020 16:11:24 GMT
Personally would rather see the money invested in grass route facilities
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Post by sporty on Oct 9, 2020 16:50:43 GMT
Hopefully this will mean that clubs will not go bust. Watching live is a lot better than streaming imo
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