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Post by faz on Mar 20, 2017 10:59:19 GMT
As we enter the conference play offs this coming weekend I wonder whether anyone thinks a conference team can give a prem team a worthwhile game?
In the north west Liverpool under 16s plainly should have been playing prem this year so could provide a surprise at play off stage.
After watching the Phoenix Leeds play off game decider yesterday I also think Liverpool 18s will provide worthwhile opposition. Unfortunately the under 14s playoffs when conference meet prem certainly from a north west perspective are likely to be somewhat one sided.
I believe there is further discussions as to how age groups and formats will be next season. Personally I'd like a return to the old age groups but keep a premier division from 14s up. Your thoughts
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 19:46:03 GMT
Can only speak from a 16s North perspective. My opinion is that several conference teams would have been competitive in the Premier league but I don't expect any upsets against the top 4 who were more or less clear of the rest of the league. Looks similar in the South too. Would be interested to know if Liverpool applied for Premier...
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Post by Samgray on Mar 20, 2017 21:33:12 GMT
I personally would prefer to see separate prem and conference playoffs to hopefully encourage teams to take the prem route, however this format does throw up interesting matchups. We (magic u14s) have to play Newcastle or York eagles and I'm sure whichever we play will be tough!!! personal preference but if i had a son who was keen on basketball I'd much prefer them to be in the premier in a struggling team than winning easily at conference level but I'm sure others view it diferently. I look at wire and hoods u14 and the improvements those boys have made and despite it being a challenging season from the outside looking in they've both been impressive and will serve all the boys well for the future.
Having seen both at close hand I'm excited to see a potential Trafford vs Liverpool game at u16, as far as I'm aware Liverpool didn't apply for prem. was impressed with u18s at the weekend as well faz however think they will struggle vs any prem team due to general intensity and quality of players. Liverpool have a great set up off the court with amazing volunteers so it's great to see them doing so well!
always interesting to see how the north vs south games go, in sure this year will be no different!!
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Post by connors on Mar 21, 2017 8:34:59 GMT
I'm not sure there is a magic formula for sorting out a league structure for junior hoops. Unlike adult basketball the squads are always transient as they move up through the age groups. Although some clubs are historically strong due to all sorts of reasons it is understandable that you end up with some very good teams in the Conference who could compete in the Prem and vice versa.
In the NE conference there looked some very strong teams (some mentioned above) in both U14 and U16.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Mar 21, 2017 9:53:03 GMT
There's a local team to us that would have won the lower level under 14s league but entered premier and were getting beaten every week last time I looked
I think the gulf between the lower level and premier level is huge
If you are just playing for fun or as a hobby I think the lower level works
If you want to be an "elite" then it's got to be the premier level
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Post by bluesuedeshoes on Mar 21, 2017 11:11:25 GMT
Always maintained it is ridiculous that Conference teams are allowed to compete for the National Championships. That is what the cup is for.
Can you think of any other sport that a second division team can win the first division or premiership titles?
Most teams entering premiership have considerable resources which enables continuity and quality. Most (not all) conference teams rely on one or two individuals who cannot sustain over a long period.
Some of the conference teams mentioned above as having competitive teams have terrible history with admin, court availability, quality of players etc. Premiership is about long term quality, not being lucky enough to have a single age group of players who have the talent. This has to be repeated year after year across multiple age groups.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 12:46:10 GMT
I'm not sure there is a magic formula for sorting out a league structure for junior hoops. Unlike adult basketball the squads are always transient as they move up through the age groups. Although some clubs are historically strong due to all sorts of reasons it is understandable that you end up with some very good teams in the Conference who could compete in the Prem and vice versa. Completely agree - some good examples we can point to this year. The problem, IMO, with the current structure is the restrictions on playing up. If you are a young U15 (ie 14 years old) and 'naturally' playing for a 16 Conference team, you cannot play up into 16 Prem - your only opportunity to play up is into U18 and physically that can be a massive leap. I know it is down to coaches and parents to agree with players where it is best for their development to play, but this system restricts that choice. I do, however, agree with the regulations on restricting the amount of teams (age groups) that a single player can play for. This encourages clubs to build teams, rather than rely on individuals. If there is going to be a review of structures there needs to be a sensible look at the relationship between academies / EABL / national league and schools competitions. |
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Post by faz on Mar 21, 2017 19:13:12 GMT
Sam totally agree about playing prem as opposed to conference. I also agree about separate play offs for prem and conf. A team shouldn't make play offs by choosing to play at a lower level equally a genuine conference team has no chance of progressing and indeed the season will finish on a low.
I've not seen much 18s prem this year but have seen Riders play and think Liverpool can give them a game if they progress. However Liverpool don't have the depth that Riders have
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Post by faz on Mar 27, 2017 10:41:17 GMT
I don't understand why the prem team finishing 3rd has an away tie in the second round. Do EB regard winning a conference league or coming 2nd and winning a 1st round tie as a greater achievement than finishing 3 or 4 in the prem?
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Post by faz on Mar 27, 2017 10:53:03 GMT
]Having seen both at close hand I'm excited to see a potential Trafford vs Liverpool game at u16, as far as I'm aware Liverpool didn't apply for prem. was impressed with u18s at the weekend as well faz however think they will struggle vs any prem team due to general intensity and quality of players. Liverpool have a great set up off the court with amazing volunteers so it's great to see them doing so well!
always interesting to see how the north vs south games go, in sure this year will be no different!![/quote][
You've convinced me Sam . Saturday afternoon at the archbishop beck. They look a little more interesting games than what you have at the Amaechi. [ for neutrals of course] Always nice to see how the 3 lads from wire who went to Charnwood are getting on as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 11:57:51 GMT
My learning from this weekend (my focus is on U16s): Interesting that there were hardly any upsets in the first round of the playoffs (2 of the 8 went against ranking and they were both 1 or 2 possession games), which suggests that the standard at the top of the conferences is comparable across the regions.
Don't know where BE gets its maps from but we have a bit of an anomaly with Cheshire Wire having to travel to London for their 2nd round game against 'Northern' opposition. I have not looked at the total number of teams entered into the competition but, based on my personal experience, where there are age groups with 9 Development leagues, BE always groups 5 in the North and 4 in the South regardless of where they are geographically located.
Looking at results this weekend and the matchups, I would still expect all 4 Prem teams in the North to advance...
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Post by faz on Apr 1, 2017 19:53:48 GMT
Well certainly has t gone to plan:
Magic 16 go out and Wire scrape through by 4
Liverpool reds lose by 2 to Trafford
Decent under 18s game with Charnwood' depth proving too strong for Liverpool.
14s south prem team also went out
Pleased to say not too many blow outs
Good effort all round from the conference teams. Does it indicate the selections for prem teams was wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 20:12:31 GMT
At 16s i think it was as expected apart from Magic. Having played both Magic and Dynamite this season I'm surprised at the result but not that it was competitive. (Long) away games are always going to give an edge to the teams playing against 3rd and 4th.
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Post by faz on Apr 5, 2017 18:05:04 GMT
I suspect a tough weekend for the north. Voise, Sam hoping you can keep the flag flying.
Sam do you use the show court at this stage? looking forward to watching your game against Feltnam Warriors.
Good luck to both of you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 19:44:12 GMT
Thanks Faz. Best wishes to the Wire too. I told the boys tonight it's about being the best team we can be. If we do that collectively I'll be happy at the end of the weekend.
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Post by Sam Gray on Apr 5, 2017 22:17:48 GMT
Really appreciate that faz! We have chosen to use our usual training court (3) and not the show court. The 18s will be on the show court before us though. It's always tough at this stage but looking forward to the challenge! Will see you on Saturday!
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Post by faz on Apr 8, 2017 20:02:17 GMT
A sensational game at the amaechi today between Magic and London Feltham Warriors under 14s. Magic winning in overtime 107 - 102
Not sure i've watched a more exciting game at any level than this.
Some nice post play by London who were significant bigger though credit to magic's d that they weren't over run by their size. London had 2 guards who drove effectively whilst magics outside shooting and free throw conversion from their guards was outstanding.
Magic started strongly taking a double digit lead killing London on the fast break. A number of sloppy turnovers from London allowing Magic to take the 1st 29 - 22. I could only see one winner at this point. London returned to a half court D and started get a foothold in the game. The game swung with ways with London taking a 5 point lead in the 4th. Magic came back and led by 6 with under a minute left. London levelled to force overtime.
I was somewhat surprised to see London try to press in overtime which coupled to one of London's guards fouling out enabled magic to see the game out relatively comfortably.
Ultimately Magic's superior shooting, discipline, decision making and depth saw them take very very hard but I think marginally deserved victory. A really tough one to lose but junior basketball won big time today.
Congratulations Sam.
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Post by Guest on Apr 8, 2017 20:15:13 GMT
Thoroughly enjoyed watching this game today, great support from both sides. In my opinion, Magic deserved to win as Warriors turned the ball over way too many times and Magic punished them with fast interceptions and easy layups.
Great outside shooting from Magic in a great game.
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