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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 3, 2018 21:16:45 GMT
Footballs coming home
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 3, 2018 22:26:21 GMT
No possible way it won’t. We’ve won a penalty shootout for Christ’s sake!
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Post by reallyoldfeenixfan on Jul 3, 2018 22:41:54 GMT
Would Gareth Southgate be interested in a coaching job with the. GB basketball squad do you think?
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Post by hersey427 on Jul 4, 2018 6:35:20 GMT
I may have had several small heart attacks last night. Looking around the pub at people my age - who've suffered since 1982 - I wasn't the only one.
I still refuse to believe
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 4, 2018 9:53:40 GMT
I still refuse to believe Well with just 3 possible games left for us to play now We've got way more chance of winning this than: Germany Spain Italy Holland Argentina Portugal Which makes a change to say the least!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 11:33:59 GMT
Anyone in that half of the draw will fancy their chances. England have an excellent chance to progress. Southgate seems a little different from previous managers. I like the way he goes about his business.
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Post by nixette on Jul 4, 2018 11:40:16 GMT
Yep I’d agree he does seem to have a brain!
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Post by faz on Jul 4, 2018 11:44:53 GMT
The FA made their first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. However it was by default so let’s not believe they really have a clue.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 4, 2018 11:53:21 GMT
The FA made their first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. However it was by default so let’s not believe they really have a clue.
They've got a damn site more clue than the chumps running our basketball lets face it.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 4, 2018 11:58:20 GMT
I didn't think Southgate would last 12 months tbh
Don't think he's a great football manager by any stretch of imagination. Certainly not club football. His approach seems to be working for now though with this group of young players.
One of the reasons he's done well IMO is actually lack of expectation in the first place. We had very little to lose.
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Post by faz on Jul 4, 2018 12:39:01 GMT
The FA made their first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. However it was by default so let’s not believe they really have a clue.
They've got a damn site more clue than the chumps running our basketball lets face it.
Very scary as true
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Post by faz on Jul 4, 2018 12:45:20 GMT
I didn't think Southgate would last 12 months tbh Don't think he's a great football manager by any stretch of imagination. Certainly not club football. His approach seems to be working for now though with this group of young players. One of the reasons he's done well IMO is actually lack of expectation in the first place. We had very little to lose. I think it’s very difficult to judge anyone on club performance. The poloriisations of clubs is so great. Douse does great at Burnley but none of the big clubs show interest. International management is very different to club. Southgate didn’t have a large pool of talent or is able to spend to bring it in. He has cyreated spirit, a system and worked on set pieces, plays within the teams limitations. Has plucked z few relatively unknowns so doffing of hat is in order!
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Post by connors on Jul 4, 2018 13:06:03 GMT
I also recall the 1982 world cup although from a suffering perspective I feel I have "only" been suffering since 1986 :-) I enjoyed the victory but the game was pure pain from start to finish on so many levels!
Gotta disagree with you Faz about it being the first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. Its the second as for me Venables was a good appointment - sadly they got rid of him too early for non football reasons. I know many who also rated Hoddle and believe, were it not for some very odd personal beliefs, he too would have gone on to greater success (i'm not so sure on that one).
I consider any success from now on to be pure gravy. However if we can get past Sweden this country is going to come to a standstill Wednesday night and Thursday, win or lose, will be a very slow day!
Come on England! I honestly don't believe but I'll support you anyway!!
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 4, 2018 13:38:21 GMT
I also recall the 1982 world cup although from a suffering perspective I feel I have "only" been suffering since 1986 :-) I enjoyed the victory but the game was pure pain from start to finish on so many levels! Gotta disagree with you Faz about it being the first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. Its the second as for me Venables was a good appointment - sadly they got rid of him too early for non football reasons. I know many who also rated Hoddle and believe, were it not for some very odd personal beliefs, he too would have gone on to greater success (i'm not so sure on that one). I consider any success from now on to be pure gravy. However if we can get past Sweden this country is going to come to a standstill Wednesday night and Thursday, win or lose, will be a very slow day! Come on England! I honestly don't believe but I'll support you anyway!! I think we have a 50/50 chance of beating sweden Anything could happen that game. But that's decent odds. We win it and I would similarly give us a 50/50 chance of beating Russia or Croatia. There's very little between the teams IMO Take one game at a time now BUT we go into every game with a good chance of winning I'm glad there are a few days rest now as yesterday will have been both physically and mentally draining for all of them
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 13:57:28 GMT
Did Gareth do much with the English Youth sides.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 4, 2018 14:02:01 GMT
Yeah agree with you Connors - Venables was a good appointment and to be honest enjoyed more success than any since with a semi-final appearance. Ironic that the current manager who has as good a chance as any in years to go further was the one that messed it up for him!
Don't agree with Hoddle whatsoever. 90% of what comes out of his mouth is utter bile, and the other 10% is nothing more than the blatantly obvious.
Re: Southgate - he was a safe and comfortable option by the FA because of his non controversial status and relative know how of the FA having worked with the younger age groups and to be fair, the degree of success he endured with the teams he's had at international level.
I have to say my first thoughts were that this was a horrible appointment - his club record is useless and he had (for me) all the personality of a wet lettuce - in fact his most famous moment in life was wearing a paper bag on TV for Pizza hut. I thought he was just a nodding dog yes man that the FA would love because of the hot water they were in over Allardyce (the gravy drinking slob).
I think I'm starting to change my opinion for the following reasons:
1) International management is completely different to club management. You can have a philosophy as a club manager and if the current set of players don't buy in, then ship them out and go and get new ones. Not the case in international management - you've got who you've got, end of story. On one hand he's got the FA saying he's got to play a certain way and everyone is crying out for identity in the way we play football and on the other hand he's got a crop of players who may or may not be up to that job - so its definitely a balancing act and the club argument kind of goes out of the window.
2) It just so happens he's worked with a lot of the players before at youth levels and knows them pretty well. As we've seen with the Germans (world cup winning side contained I think it was 9/10 of the starting 11 that played in the U21 euros in years previous) continuity works well and having a leader that's grown in management with a lot of the players and had a bit of relative joy with them performance wise may assist in getting players to trust him and buy into what he's trying to implement.
3) I actually really like the fact he's stripped the squad back and gone with a relatively young and unproven squad of players that can stay together for the next 2 at least world cups and the Euro's in between. In doing so he's assembled a hungry side who are on paper one of the quicker/up-tempo set of players I've seen in an England shirt in my time. Whether we like it or not it was a ballsy call (and correct in my opinion) to drop Rooney and shy away from some of the more tried and tested players such as Gary Cahill in favour of a fresh approach. I think this fits into his way of playing the ball out from the back with the likes of Stones, Walker and Maguire at CB and some of the defensive stuff I've seen has been really good. Thought in the main they were pretty well organised on the defensive side of the ball against Colombia and they retained possession in as calm a way as I've seen from an England back 3.
4) He seems to have a camaraderie within the squad that hasn't been there in previous tournaments. He's built a good rapport with the media and the squad seem to be pretty tight knit. They've been seen having a laugh together and there's no reports that players are bored in the camp and stuff like that which always seems to be an excuse put out, so fair play to Southgate. Having been there and done it as a player himself, he's probably learned the best ways of keeping life interesting first hand so in that respect its another tick in a positive box for him.
5) We seem unstoppable from set pieces. That comes solely down to organisation on the coaching part - its almost like a basketball 24 second set play in the way it comes down to the coaches with x's and o's. It also helps he's got the largest head to ever enter a sporting arena in Harry Maguire but they look good from corners/free kicks and its paid dividends - I'm prepared to give him a lot of the credit for that.
That said, he has had quite a bit of luck go for him in this tournament.... We've not actually played anyone who is any good yet. I don't count the Belgium game as both sides played their reserves, but we scraped through against Tunisia by the fibre of our fabric, battered a team that my Sunday league side would have taken to the cleaners and got through on Pens Vs a Colombia side without by far its most creative player (James Rodriguez). Had Germany have made a better fist of things we'd have faced them last night and we're probably talking a bit differently today having crashed out. Alas, none of that is Southgate's fault and it is often said that its not how you start its how you finish, but I cant help but feel if a few minor things have gone differently and he's the failure everyone expected.
I think someones already touched on this but I also think he benefits from the nation having had absolutely no expectation of this lot whatsoever. I'll be the first to throw my hands up and say I expected a draw Vs Tunisia and a loss against Belgium with it being typically England to draw the panama game and go out. I didn't think he had the creativity in the side and I didn't think he had a jar of glue how to just get the job done. Turns out he's won ugly and that bodes well I suppose, but does anyone else think we've been a bit lacking creatively in open play? Sterling has been awful, which I think Southgate has to take some responsibility for as he's not a player who is going to play on the shoulder of the last defender, hes someone who picks the ball up between the opposition defence and midfield and gets a run at people face to face, but what do I know.... Alli isn't fully fit and that's obvious yet he doesn't seem to want to change him, I don't think Young has been at his best by a long shot and Rose hasn't been too bad, and his substitutions came too late in the day for me last night (and Dier shouldn't ever pull a shirt on again as he's dreadful - what was wrong with Delph!!!!) - but we've gotten this far and he seems like a guy whos interested in learning on the job.
Bottom line - I'm as optimistic for the medium/long term future of this England team as I've ever been - never thought I'd say that at the start of the Southgate era - and given the players we've had in the past that's saying something. Get past Sweden and that's a semi final. As well as we've done in the World cup for over 25 years - with a young squad and a progressive manager its not a bad foundation to build on!
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 4, 2018 14:04:29 GMT
Did Gareth do much with the English Youth sides. Won 27, Drawn 3 and Lost 3 games out of 33 in charge.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 4, 2018 14:21:36 GMT
I also recall the 1982 world cup although from a suffering perspective I feel I have "only" been suffering since 1986 :-) I enjoyed the victory but the game was pure pain from start to finish on so many levels! Gotta disagree with you Faz about it being the first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. Its the second as for me Venables was a good appointment - sadly they got rid of him too early for non football reasons. I know many who also rated Hoddle and believe, were it not for some very odd personal beliefs, he too would have gone on to greater success (i'm not so sure on that one). I consider any success from now on to be pure gravy. However if we can get past Sweden this country is going to come to a standstill Wednesday night and Thursday, win or lose, will be a very slow day! Come on England! I honestly don't believe but I'll support you anyway!! I think we have a 50/50 chance of beating sweden Anything could happen that game. But that's decent odds. We win it and I would similarly give us a 50/50 chance of beating Russia or Croatia. There's very little between the teams IMO Take one game at a time now BUT we go into every game with a good chance of winning I'm glad there are a few days rest now as yesterday will have been both physically and mentally draining for all of them I'd say we've a lot better than a 50% chance of beating Sweden.
We're one of the younger and faster squads in the tournament - they happen to be one of the slowest.
I cannot for the life of me see where they're going to trouble us - don't have the attacking options and I don't think they'll be able to keep pace defensively.
The only team I really properly fear until the final is Croatia - they can be excellent on their day.
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Post by faz on Jul 4, 2018 16:25:28 GMT
Agree with a lot of what you say bigz. Dier terrible and the lack of creativity. It was a no brainer to take Shelby and a punt on Grealish. I’m staggered that Well ack makes the squad but that’s more about the size of the pool. On s separate note why do Man U players look better in their international teams?
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Post by hersey427 on Jul 4, 2018 16:59:08 GMT
The FA made their first decent appointment since Bobby Robson. However it was by default so let’s not believe they really have a clue.
They've got a damn site more clue than the chumps running our basketball lets face it.
I'm not sure they are that much better. They just have the resources to buy their way out of trouble - we have the richest domestic football system in the world as opposed to a basketball federation who only survives on public funding. You only have to look at how they're progressively killing the FA Cup and the utter pig's ear they've made of Football League Trophy (the one for L1 & L2 clubs) to see their ability to screw things up.
But Southgate's boys have exceeded expectation. Though it could be argued low expectations helped keep the pressure off. Imagine if we had a successful national basketball team
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Post by hersey427 on Jul 4, 2018 17:05:07 GMT
Bottom line - I'm as optimistic for the medium/long term future of this England team as I've ever been - never thought I'd say that at the start of the Southgate era - and given the players we've had in the past that's saying something. Get past Sweden and that's a semi final. As well as we've done in the World cup for over 25 years - with a young squad and a progressive manager its not a bad foundation to build on! I cried that day 28 years ago. And when they did it again six years later. I'm currently in love with South Korea
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 4, 2018 22:04:18 GMT
I agree England have very little creativity
Luckily neither do Sweden
And I'm hoping Russia can put Croatia out as they don't have any either
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2NFR
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Post by 2NFR on Jul 4, 2018 22:09:28 GMT
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. - Stephen King ... here's Hoping
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 4, 2018 22:54:45 GMT
I think we have a 50/50 chance of beating sweden Anything could happen that game. But that's decent odds. We win it and I would similarly give us a 50/50 chance of beating Russia or Croatia. There's very little between the teams IMO Take one game at a time now BUT we go into every game with a good chance of winning I'm glad there are a few days rest now as yesterday will have been both physically and mentally draining for all of them I'd say we've a lot better than a 50% chance of beating Sweden.
We're one of the younger and faster squads in the tournament - they happen to be one of the slowest.
I cannot for the life of me see where they're going to trouble us - don't have the attacking options and I don't think they'll be able to keep pace defensively.
The only team I really properly fear until the final is Croatia - they can be excellent on their day.
Sweden will be solid and the European solid teams are way better at dealing with set pieces than some of the other teams we've played so far. Which negates our advantage there I think. They are too intelligent to start grabbing hold of our players and throwing them down to the ground in the box etc I'm expecting a very tight game myself
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Post by Steven McTowelie on Jul 4, 2018 23:58:35 GMT
But Southgate's boys have exceeded expectation. Though it could be argued low expectations helped keep the pressure off. Have England truly exceeded expectations by beating a couple of fairly dreadful sides in the group stage, then scraping past a Colombian team missing it's best player? I think all but the most cynical of England supporters would have given us a very good chance to make it to this point before a ball was kicked. Obviously the expectation would have been that we would then face someone far better than Sweden in the quarters. Clearly the draw has opened up for us massively and we've been handed a great opportunity to go deep into the tournament but it feels a bit like the team's being given credit for something it could do before it's actually done it. Hopefully it doesn't happen but if we lose to Sweden on Saturday I hardly think that Southgate or these players will be judged a success.
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