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Post by faz on Apr 29, 2018 8:41:25 GMT
Heard that the under 17 regional tournament has been scrapped. This on the basis of saving money and the fact that it only produces 1 or 2 new players for consideration for development. Seems a shame that this opportunity for youngsters to gain some acknowledgment of their abilities has been removed.
The R.P.C hasn’t been favourably received by a number of kids and parents who simply stopped attending despite paying their£100 up front.
How are coaches and assistants appointed for the regional teams and by whom? I know our club secretary didn’t receive any notification regarding submitting nominations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 9:32:46 GMT
Finding one or two players worth developing is enough of a reason to run the under-17s. I've heard rumours that they're considering scrapping the whole programme, which would be bloody criminal. I can't believe it costs BE much money, judging by how much we've shelled out over the last couple of years, it can't be far off being self funding.
A few words about my boy. The look on his face when he got picked for the East squad is enough reason to run the programme.
I have no idea what criteria is used when selecting coaches.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 9:46:44 GMT
Ha ha. Wait for my rant later
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Post by notoriousbigz on Apr 29, 2018 20:57:23 GMT
Incompetent governing body strikes again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 17:13:53 GMT
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Post by ballerman on Apr 30, 2018 18:20:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 18:24:47 GMT
Yep. Sat on the bench. Thinking back six years with people blagging their way onto the bench, nothing changes
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Skytree95
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Post by Skytree95 on Apr 30, 2018 21:17:02 GMT
Back when I played in National League for Under 15/16 for Newcastle, I never had the chance to play regionals due to some technicality surrounding my birth date (Apparently November '95 made me "too old" for all the age brackets) yet I was invited to come along to the Area Performance Centres anyways for the extra practice, especially as I was fast-tracked onto the School of Excellence after playing Basketball for not even 12 months.
For those who did take part in the regional programme properly, they certainly enjoyed it and the Lilleshall tournaments being a highlight of their time playing Junior Basketball and made a change from club games as they got to play with others from other teams and learn new stuff. I certainly did by the APC sessions off some brilliant coaches including Mark Steutel (Northumbria's D1 coach) and Chris Bunten (The nicest and most patient coach I've ever had)
It shouldn't be a matter for Basketball England to consider these tournaments a waste due to their elite recruitment capability, it's to give those who play in EBL clubs to achieve greater things they know they can realistically make. There were plenty on my team who knew they couldn't ever make the national team but could certainly strive to be a part of the regional squad.
Basketball England strikes once again, a governing body who couldn't even run a p!55-up in a brewery.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 16:26:28 GMT
Ha ha. Wait for my rant later Oh come on, come on!
I've written to BE giving my views about the idea of ending the regional and national tournaments.. It was a bit shorter than this, but I hope to get a positive reply.
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kol
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Post by kol on May 1, 2018 18:22:56 GMT
I don't understand the rationale behind scrapping u17 regional tournaments. At my club we get a lot of new players joining the club from Yr9-11. Most junior players are exposed to the sport at secondary school so this is when they might realise they have a talent and interest for it. Being a late specialisation sport as well means a lot of players aren't within the 'system' by 13 years of age. Physical development of individuals matters a lot to their potential in our sport as well where a growth spurt or athletic development may change the outlook for certain players.
I think maybe that only a couple of new players are unearthed at u17 age group is because coaches assess and select players based on current performances and not potential. I have coached regional squads and you often end up selecting the players who have received the most coaching previously rather than thinking what would another player be like once they have been exposed to the same opportunities of coaching, training and competition.
I would be worried that new players entering the sport at 15 years of age with a huge amount of potential could be missed out. I'm also slightly concerned that players are selected at a young age for representative teams and then it is a closed shop for anyone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 10:02:26 GMT
Ha ha. Wait for my rant later Oh come on, come on! As I approach retirement from coaching (having gone through the NBL from U13-U18 as well as have two kids and a brother go through the system at various times) I have promised myself to try and leave all this rage behind! I have not seen any formal announcement of the scrapping of the U17 tournment / changes to the wider regional structure but most of my thoughts have been well articulated by Hersey and kol. None of my points are intended to be a dig at any individuals, but the structure. Firstly, the vast majority of kids playing in the regional tournament from U11-U17 don't go onto national team selection. But in my experience it is a major source of motivation and peer 'recognition' for NBL players. The tournament also provides a higher level of competition that is not present in most of the regular season and is an opportunity to test yourself against the best in the country. The RPC structure also potentially provides the opportunity for targeted individual development and focus on high level skills that you don't get in a regular open club based training session. Secondly I agree with kol that there is a big gap between U15 and U17 - kids are still developing and even joining the sport and the thought that there is no structured and transparent way for them to get into the national programme seems unfair (I have had the privilege of working with some great players on the cusp of England at U15 who could have progressed into consideration for the older age groups). My biggest concern though is that it means national team selection is effectively confirmed at the regional tournament at U13 and U15. My experience is that there aren't that many changes to the pool of national team players after that age as those players inevitably get more experience, support, attention and visibility with coaches. This is fine if the selection process at U13 /15 (including going from sub-regional selection to regional to national) is transparent and effective, but my guess is if you ask most national and local league coaches at these age groups they will say that at best the formal organisation is haphazard and inconsistent and at worst open to accusations of nepotism and poaching. Simply due to the nature of how the sport is sustained across the country coaches are appointed where there are family ties and club ties to players, some have very limited experience of successfully coaching national league and in the very early stages of selection for say sub-regional teams prior to regional selection there is definitley a spirit of we must get representation from all teams in the area rather than select a bigger number of, on the face of it, 'better' players from one team. But without the regional tournament / RPC (which could no doubt be improved) what is the alternative? When I have asked about national team coaches (most of whom have been based in the South in my era) scouting players during the regular season in order to get a taste of players performing regularly in 'normal' game situations I have been flat out told that there is no need for that because that is what the regional tourney is for. We are also now seeing paid EABL coaches take on the national team coaching roles. This is great because they are full-time coaches, with CPD regimes, and exposed to a range of talented players who have chosen the Academy route for their education. But is there potential for a conflict of interest here? when assessing a selection pool that contains their own players and being able to influence the reputation (and therefore profits and their salary?) of their own institution by the selection. Whether it actually happens or not, I think there structurally ought to be some safeguards in place to avoid this or the perception of this. One interesting sidenote in terms of the EABL. Over recent years, national league players at 16 within the development pathway have been told that they must attend an EABL academy if they want to be considered for national team selection. If the governing body is now saying that you're effectively either in or out of the national squad by U15 then will that affect Academy recruitment? Several of the players I have worked with have specifically chosen to change their education plans in order to give themselves the opportunity for national team selection. This is obviously a moot point if BE decide to scrap national league at U18, which I am sure is not as untouchable an option as it seemed 5 years ago. There you go Hersey - was it worth it?!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 9:01:06 GMT
"There you go Hersey - was it worth it?!!"
No. I expected vitriol, swearing and possibly unfounded accusations of racism.
Seriously, you raise some good points. The pathway shouldn't close at 14 or 15, genuinely talented kids generally progress at speed with good coaching. We can't afford to miss talent.
It's a shame BE won't ask for (and listen to) more feedback. You've lived the dream, they should want your experience.
Two days on from my email to BE, I've had no answer....
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Post by elbasketo on May 3, 2018 13:40:10 GMT
My understanding is that the Regional Tournament format will be scrapped in favour of a more comprehensive monitoring system throughout the year. Let's face it, any kid can have a bad weekend and suddenly play themselves out of contention for selection. Of course the opposite is also true, a bad year but a good tournament and you're in!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 14:40:45 GMT
My understanding is that the Regional Tournament format will be scrapped in favour of a more comprehensive monitoring system throughout the year. Let's face it, any kid can have a bad weekend and suddenly play themselves out of contention for selection. Of course the opposite is also true, a bad year but a good tournament and you're in! If that is the way forward for national team selection I would support it. I still like the concept of regional tournaments from a wider participation standpoint - particularly at younger age groups
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Post by elbasketo on May 3, 2018 15:37:23 GMT
My understanding is that the Regional Tournament format will be scrapped in favour of a more comprehensive monitoring system throughout the year. Let's face it, any kid can have a bad weekend and suddenly play themselves out of contention for selection. Of course the opposite is also true, a bad year but a good tournament and you're in! If that is the way forward for national team selection I would support it. I still like the concept of regional tournaments from a wider participation standpoint - particularly at younger age groups It would certainly remove the politics (or perceived politics) from the selection process, and make the whole thing more transparent. I think the idea that the best players get together and compete will remain in some format. I think it should be more of a 'check-in' than the be-all and end-all of the process though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 18:19:48 GMT
But where does it leave the late developer at the small club? They'll slip through the net.
Bearing in mind the parents fund the regionals and BE were conspicuous by their absence at the U-11 tournament last year, I wonder why both systems can't be in place.
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Post by elbasketo on May 3, 2018 22:01:26 GMT
But where does it leave the late developer at the small club? I believe the idea is to monitor ALL national league players, whatever the club. However, if the developer is that late, and the club that small, it’s going to be tough whatever the model!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 7:08:28 GMT
I know that's the theory, but how practical is it? How's this monitoring going to happen? The girl at Harlow I mentioned in my blog is the flaw in this theory. Due to numbers she plays a handful of mixed age group friendlies (which have been great for Cait), the regional were her only chance to be noticed.
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Post by elbasketo on May 4, 2018 15:46:23 GMT
I know that's the theory, but how practical is it? How's this monitoring going to happen? The girl at Harlow I mentioned in my blog is the flaw in this theory. Due to numbers she plays a handful of mixed age group friendlies (which have been great for Cait), the regional were her only chance to be noticed. Is moving clubs a viable option..?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 17:17:57 GMT
For that specific girl, no. Her dad runs Harlow Hawks.
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Post by elbasketo on May 4, 2018 22:35:12 GMT
For that specific girl, no. Her dad runs Harlow Hawks. Always difficult. I understand the situation but I guess the only genuine answer is that not everyone can be catered for. If the governing body is able to satisfy 75% of people it would be a massive improvement. I think we wait for the release of the new format and see how it all shakes out
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 8:06:20 GMT
Yeah, we'll wait for the format. Along with a reply from BE.
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