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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 12:03:05 GMT
Undoubtedly the turnout last night was poor, but I'm not sure that it was as low as IRF thought. I would have guesstimated it at 500ish, but it would be nice to know the precise figure. Can't someone twist Kirsty's arm to get an exact figure? At one stage I did contemplate trying to count the crowd I would say it may have ended up nearer 500 than 300 but certainly no more than that |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 12:05:43 GMT
Seriously, did anyone think the attendances would be poor? I for one didn't. I'll go out on a limb and say Newcastle will get much bigger crowds when they enter euro competition. Ultimately, the fan base are the catalyst to send the club on to bigger and beter things. Sponsors are hardly going to part with cash if fans can't be arsed to turn up and watch a very good level of basketball. I really think Riders will think twice before entering again, next season. I think the one thing the club were expecting was lots of corporate spend from businesses which would normally be more attractive for client entertaining midweek than on a weekend But I don't think that's happened I guess it's hard for us though with LCFC and Leicester Tigers both established in Leicester for local business entertaining |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 15, 2018 12:17:37 GMT
Dare I say it.... are Leicester a small market team? I cant imagine that London Lions or Newcastle Eagles (or maybe even Bristol Flyers!!!!) would have difficulty selling out a European game midweek.
Now I'm not being insulting when I say that, all I'm questioning is whether there is the catchment for basketball spectators in the area. Its actually a backhanded compliment in a way that a club from a small market has risen to the top of the game.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 12:32:14 GMT
Dare I say it.... are Leicester a small market team? I cant imagine that London Lions or Newcastle Eagles (or maybe even Bristol Flyers!!!!) would have difficulty selling out a European game midweek. Now I'm not being insulting when I say that, all I'm questioning is whether there is the catchment for basketball spectators in the area. Its actually a backhanded compliment in a way that a club from a small market has risen to the top of the game. When I first went to Eagles for a Riders game I was really impressed by the crowd size and the whole buzz about the place But I've also watched live basketball WEEKEND games at Eagles not involving Riders with clearly lower crowds London lions I've been to as well. They struggle to get 1000 fans to a weekend game. Let alone a midweek game. There's no way lions are selling out a midweek game. They would do well to get 800 plus people there on a Wednesday night I'm not going to argue that Eagles wouldn't get more fans than riders. But I am going to say that take any number of fans they get for an average weekend BBL fixture (whatever that number is) then halve it for what they would get on a Wednesday night on a regular basis. IMO. People aren't going to watch the opposition in our euro games as they've never even heard of them. I predicted this at the start of the season. Team USA Select on a weekend sounds far more exciting than Falco Vulcano on a Wednesday night Sheffield Sharks on a weekend sounds just as interesting as Bakken Bears on a Wednesday to all but diehard basketball fans IMO Well not just IMO. The attendances speak for themselves. What does Flyers hold? They might sell out? |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 12:35:45 GMT
On a separate note if you are commercial manager at Riders how hard it is right now to promote a game on social media
We played Lions at home on Friday. That gave us 4 days to focus on promoting the Euro Wednesday Night Game on our social media
We then played Vulcano last night. That now gives us 2 days to focus on promoting the Eagles game. That game will suffer as a result with attendance.
Then when that game finishes weve got 3 days to focus on promoting the next game v Hungarians on Wednesday night
Theres no easy answers to the above. Let's be honest. It's hard.
And it would be equally hard for Eagles or Lions or anyone else who wants to have a go at this
I went to Lions v Riders one midweek night. They had a 7000 seat stadium with about 800 people in
How do you think that will somehow become a sellout on Wednesday nights Bigz?
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Post by inaminute23 on Nov 15, 2018 12:43:09 GMT
The club is over 40 years old. It is not in its infancy
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 12:47:01 GMT
The club is over 40 years old. It is not in its infancy None of which is relevant to getting people to basketball games on Wednesday nights to watch teams they've never heard of compete in a tournament they've never heard of We probably average 1500 to 1800 fans to weekend games (your point is relevant to that). Maybe we should get more to that. But I am saying 1400 of them are happy with watching one game a week max and want it to be on a weekend. And 40 years of history doesn't involve European midweek games. That's obvious surely? |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 12:49:39 GMT
What about Championship Clubs in football who get 20k plus fans to watch Premier League and less than 10k watching Carabao Cup Midweek
People pick and choose.
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Post by blueskies99 on Nov 15, 2018 12:52:34 GMT
The club is over 40 years old. It is not in its infancy Not sure what your point is...... |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 15, 2018 12:57:05 GMT
On a separate note if you are commercial manager at Riders how hard it is right now to promote a game on social media We played Lions at home on Friday. That gave us 4 days to focus on promoting the Euro Wednesday Night Game on our social media We then played Vulcano last night. That now gives us 2 days to focus on promoting the Eagles game. That game will suffer as a result with attendance. Then when that game finishes weve got 3 days to focus on promoting the next game v Hungarians on Wednesday night Theres no easy answers to the above. Let's be honest. It's hard. And it would be equally hard for Eagles or Lions or anyone else who wants to have a go at this I went to Lions v Riders one midweek night. They had a 7000 seat stadium with about 800 people in How do you think that will somehow become a sellout on Wednesday nights Bigz? They simply have a catchment area far larger than Leicesters in which to appeal to proper basketball fans.
A BBL game to the numbers of basketball people around London is not attractive.
A game in genuine European Competition is attractive. The same way the Big Baller Brand games are. Its not the monotony of the BBL.
Selling out is probably a stretch to be fair - I'd revise and say a lot more than Riders.
Being established for 40 years is a valid point. If you've not got the hardcore by now who'd follow Riders on a Wednesday night in their biggest competition they've ever been in, when will you?
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Post by inaminute23 on Nov 15, 2018 13:05:26 GMT
Being established for 40 years is a valid point. If you've not got the hardcore by now who'd follow Riders on a Wednesday night in their biggest competition they've ever been in, when will you?
That's the point. I t really didn't need explaining. |
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Post by eagle on Nov 15, 2018 13:07:55 GMT
And when did Newcastle last play a non Friday night game at home (apart from maybe a playoff 2nd leg?)
I have no idea which games you are talking about IRF
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 13:08:45 GMT
How many hardcore fans do the following clubs have
Lions?
Eagles?
Sharks?
Flyers?
Raiders?
I'm saying Riders clearly have 500 max based on last night. Although I know one who couldn't make it even though he's hard core.
And I believe we may even have more season ticket holders than that?
But even season ticket holders have other commitments in their lives
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Post by blueskies99 on Nov 15, 2018 13:09:48 GMT
Being established for 40 years is a valid point. If you've not got the hardcore by now who'd follow Riders on a Wednesday night in their biggest competition they've ever been in, when will you?
That's the point. I t really didn't need explaining. Ha ha......it did to me! Ive got one eye on this conversation and the other on the collapsing dominoes in Westminster. Thanks for the clarification :beerchug |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 13:13:49 GMT
And when did Newcastle last play a non Friday night game at home (apart from maybe a playoff 2nd leg?) I have no idea which games you are talking about IRF I'm talking about seeing how good the crowd was when I was there. Thinking it was like that every game. Then seeing it wasn't that full in other games. So I'm saying eagles clearly don't sell out for their home games that are played on weekends and that it will be even harder to expect to sellout midweek It's a family sport. Families have lots going on in their lives. Half the kids at basketball probably have to be in bed before 9pm on a night for school the next day. Schools aren't going to take kids there on a Wednesday night. Not counting all the other commitments families have in their life. Basketball on a weekend every other week is way different to basketball Friday, Wednesday, Saturday in the same week? That's serious hard core. Half the fans at Riders games don't even know where we are in the league or more than a couple of the players names I don't think it's going to be much different anywhere else tbh For some cost may be an issue. For others I think it's just having busy lives. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 13:17:02 GMT
And when did Newcastle last play a non Friday night game at home (apart from maybe a playoff 2nd leg?) I have no idea which games you are talking about IRF I'm saying if they played Wednesday nights as well as Friday nights they would struggle on Wednesday nights big time in comparison to Friday And this week at Riders shows the extent of that struggle for us Lions, Falco, Eagles It's going to be the middle game that misses out the most as we've just seen |
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Post by blueskies99 on Nov 15, 2018 13:27:02 GMT
Just a few random thoughts to try and explain the low attendance:-
a) as I said earlier, four home games in thirteen days is tough on the pocket
b) the Riders have to compete with a Premier league football team and a Premier league rugby team for the sporting £
c) glory hunters...... There are bound to be some who are attending Riders games down to the success factor. As we struggle in Europe, their enthusiasm wains.
d) earlier tip-off times......getting home from work and out to a game is tough
e) the next day is a school day which impacts on both parents and children
Im not sure what the answer is but the one thing that has stuck in my mind after experiencing European basketball at first hand is the disparity in quality/talent between BBL teams and the European teams. That is the biggest problem facing basketball in the UK.
Perhaps it's a money thing....... I don't know, but until we get that sorted, I think we are always going to struggle.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 15, 2018 13:38:43 GMT
How many hardcore fans do the following clubs have Lions? Eagles? Sharks? Flyers? Raiders? I'm saying Riders clearly have 500 max based on last night. Although I know one who couldn't make it even though he's hard core. And I believe we may even have more season ticket holders than that? But even season ticket holders have other commitments in their lives Sorry, like Blueskies I've got one eye on Westminster, one on work and another on this so apologies if I've gotten a little ahead of myself and not explained.
I don't think the likes of London, Newcastle, Glasgow and possibly Bristol (still really unsure of that due to their venue size probably distorting my view on the amount of fans they can get to a home arena on a regular basis) need the hardcore following Leicester do to outsell them on European nights. The reason being its a bigger market for the clubs to appeal to. I think there'd be a lot of Scottish basketball people interested in seeing a European game in Glasgow from the surrounding areas who don't get to regular BBL games - and the same goes for London. Newcastle as a city has a well known reputation for its people sometimes blindly getting behind its sports teams - Newcastle FC have been crap for years - yet they get 50,000 a week at St. James. Point is I don't think they'd take too much persuading to see a European basketball game.
As for Plymouth - I think despite their good numbers every week they'd suffer a similar problem to Leicester - their fans are casual and probably don't care too much about the opponent provided they're getting their fix.
Sheffield is an interesting one - they have a history of a successful franchise which a lot of people will remember and at one stage got good attendances. They also have the benefit of a few BBL clubs in close proximity (Manchester/Cheshire) and would probably get a few fans across from around the north west. But the way it stands at the minute their attendances are pish. I guess in the here and now they're in a far worse position than Leicester but I don't know how it would be impacted if they suddenly got back to the glory days (so the length of time the franchise has been around comes in to play again and is more reliant on it in the case of a Sharks/Leicester as their market for interested spectators is smaller than a London/Glasgow/Newcastle).
This isn't in any way a slight on the clubs - Leicester have done fantastically well to do this on a sustainable level and suffer the amount of injuries they have had and not embarrass themselves at all - they just suffer geographically in a way certain other clubs wouldn't.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Nov 15, 2018 13:39:55 GMT
Just a few random thoughts to try and explain the low attendance:- a) as I said earlier, four home games in thirteen days is tough on the pocket b) the Riders have to compete with a Premier league football team and a Premier league rugby team for the sporting £ c) glory hunters...... There are bound to be some who are attending Riders games down to the success factor. As we struggle in Europe, their enthusiasm wains. d) earlier tip-off times......getting home from work and out to a game is tough e) the next day is a school day which impacts on both parents and children Im not sure what the answer is but the one thing that has stuck in my mind after experiencing European basketball at first hand is the disparity in quality/talent between BBL teams and the European teams. That is the biggest problem facing basketball in the UK. Perhaps it's a money thing....... I don't know, but until we get that sorted, I think we are always going to struggle. There is definitely mitigating factors, make no mistake about it.
Besides. Its the first attempt. Christ they'll learn lessons hopefully.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 13:46:55 GMT
If you support a sports team and you are a family the chances are your kids play sport as well and support teams at more than one sport
And have friends and activities and interests outside of that one sport. Plus school and homework
I'm a season ticket holder for 4 or 5 years plus. Half the time my family have other stuff going on at weekends let alone midweek
2 of us could go last night. Sometimes none of us can go.
We have to make choices.
I would also suggest if you take a kid 3 times in a week to watch basketball you could actually start putting them off
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 13:48:32 GMT
Finally. I would love to have gone to an away game in Europe. I can afford it.
I haven't and it's been down to being too busy at work and the one time I could go not having anyone who could get time to go with me!!
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Post by sonjel on Nov 15, 2018 14:06:02 GMT
My family and I have been Riders fans for the last 18 seasons.
I’m a former director of one of the clubs principal sponsors.
During that time we have travelled regularly to away games both weekend or weekday and have been to every venue in the BBL including flying to Glasgow and back in a day.
I’m not sure if that qualifies us as hard core fans but we didn’t go last night simply because we have other commitments that make mid-week attendance difficult. I know several season ticket holders who also couldn’t make it for the same reason
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Post by interestedridersfan on Nov 15, 2018 15:05:38 GMT
My family and I have been Riders fans for the last 18 seasons.
I’m a former director of one of the clubs principal sponsors.
During that time we have travelled regularly to away games both weekend or weekday at every venue in the BBL including flying to Glasgow and back in a day.
I’m not sure if that qualifies us as hard core fans but we didn’t go last night simply because we have other commitments that make mid-week attendance difficult. I know several season ticket holders who also couldn’t make it for the same reason That says it all And definitely a hard core fan |
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Post by inaminute23 on Nov 15, 2018 15:15:10 GMT
It says the hard core support is very small. Let's be honest, it ain't going to change. The competition with other sports is way, way, too much to compete with. The club will increase the standard on the court, but in terms of increasing their fan base, it will be very, very slow.
Out of interest what were their average attendances in the late 90's when the BBL was at its peak (player calibre wise)?
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padaceth
Rookie
Posts: 65 
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by padaceth on Nov 15, 2018 15:27:08 GMT
Oh God I am actually going to support IRF in his argument. The the last time we didn't play on a Friday night was last April in the rearranged game against Wolves. It was cancelled because of the bad weather and the only night available was a Tuesday. We played on one of the small cross courts with only one bank of seating put out and that was not full. I think there would have been around 400 - 500 in that night. Admittedly it was not a European game but I do remember debating whether I had time to get from work to the game in time for the tip off and whether the rush was worth it considering at that point the Eagles were not in the running to win the Championship.
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