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Post by number6 on Feb 1, 2019 9:07:34 GMT
I'll also answer the question of whether I think I could referee any better Probably YES Even though I admittedly don't know all the minutia of the rules, at Least I would get the same call consistently wrong, and I would also talk to the other refs, if I thought they had got something wrong and I would ( if on reflection thought I had made a bod call ) change my decision in the interests of doing the correct thing . This is too often seen as a weakness , although I find it can be a strength. I would also be more willing to listen to coaches comments without jumping for the warning of a Technical or giving one straight away. ( Unless it was clearly just an abusive rant ) And I would try my best to have a rapport with all players both before & after games I just don't think I'm fit enough to keep up with the play nowadays though.
Seriously the arrogance of this post.
"I don't know the rules and I'd consistently get calls wrong, but I'd be better than guys who've been doing it for years".
Out of interest have you ever taken a refereeing course? You're a casual fan mate, don't pretend you'd be able to do it better than guys who do it every week. Making out as if referees never listen to coaches or players or never change their minds, and that by doing so you'd be changing the game.
I've had more technicals in my time than regular fouls and gotten into more arguments with referees than most on this board - but I don't accept for a second that I wasn't listened to as a player.
Arrogant , not at all
Have an opinion ....... er ......Yes
prepared to say what I think ...... err ...... Yes
Expert ......... never said I was
Log time supporter ........... yes
seen a lot of games both home & away ............ Yes
known & still know a lot of referee's ........... Yes
Have an opinion on Referee's ............. Yes
going to a game tonight ............ Yes
Have a nice day BigZ
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Post by notoriousbigz on Feb 1, 2019 9:12:47 GMT
Seriously the arrogance of this post.
"I don't know the rules and I'd consistently get calls wrong, but I'd be better than guys who've been doing it for years".
Out of interest have you ever taken a refereeing course? You're a casual fan mate, don't pretend you'd be able to do it better than guys who do it every week. Making out as if referees never listen to coaches or players or never change their minds, and that by doing so you'd be changing the game.
I've had more technicals in my time than regular fouls and gotten into more arguments with referees than most on this board - but I don't accept for a second that I wasn't listened to as a player.
Arrogant , not at all
Have an opinion ....... er ......Yes
prepared to say what I think ...... err ...... Yes
Expert ......... never said I was
Log time supporter ........... yes
seen a lot of games both home & away ............ Yes
known & still know a lot of referee's ........... Yes
Have an opinion on Referee's ............. Yes
going to a game tonight ............ Yes
Have a nice day BigZ
Enjoy the game - for what its worth I want you to win.... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 10:44:19 GMT
I'm willing to wager that an average BBL ref would be better than #6, but there's only one way to find out, and only number 6 can prove or disprove his theory.
Refs do listen, sometimes too much (especially to me). They also over-rule each other. I've heard (from outside a room, and I wasn't even ear-wigging) Roger Harrison tear a strip off a referee for being too arrogant to listen to a coach. Yes, they'll generally stick up for each - frankly, who else will? - but they'll also admit that they screw up on occasions.
The earlier comment that they're a similar level to the players is pretty accurate. They're possibly better, they don't seem to struggle to games in Europe if they want them, I know that Ed Udanskyy (sp?) does FIBE EuroCup, and plenty of them do the junior tournaments in the summer. I think they're generally held in more esteem by Europeans than the BBL is. I certainly notice how much better
I suspect Sharks get as many/few home calls as any other team.
To answer Gonk, they get around £90 plus travel expenses. It's not shabby, but no one's getting rich and I imagine Friday night games are a pain in the backside.
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2NFR
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Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by 2NFR on Feb 1, 2019 11:45:00 GMT
Has Roger retired ? ... I liked Roger ... one of the better Ref's IMO. I know that Neil had ... ahem! ... his critics on here, but overall, was he really that bad ? (Although, he did like being the center of attention, sometimes) Would you say that Dodds'y is probably the most senior of all the current bunch of ref's we have in the BBL ? ... Nice guy, good sense of humour as well. However, their are some ref's who in my opinion seem to have a fixed mindset when reffing certain players/teams ... Not sure what their problem is ? Just a few thoughts  edit I suppose, as long as they have an 'firm but fair' attitude to reffing they can't be all that bad. Remember, as fans we tend to watch our teams through rose tinted glasses ... but if your team loses by 20/30 points Should you blame the ref's ... or blame your team ... am I wrong ? |
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2NFR
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Post by 2NFR on Feb 1, 2019 11:56:58 GMT
Jeez !! ... I can't believe I'm actually defending refs on here  No doubt that will change after tonight's game (fickle as I am)  |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Feb 1, 2019 15:08:22 GMT
Has Roger retired ? ... I liked Roger ... one of the better Ref's IMO. I know that Neil had ... ahem! ... his critics on here, but overall, was he really that bad ? (Although, he did like being the center of attention, sometimes) Would you say that Dodds'y is probably the most senior of all the current bunch of ref's we have in the BBL ? ... Nice guy, good sense of humour as well. However, their are some ref's who in my opinion seem to have a fixed mindset when reffing certain players/teams ... Not sure what their problem is ? Just a few thoughts edit I suppose, as long as they have an 'firm but fair' attitude to reffing they can't be all that bad. Remember, as fans we tend to watch our teams through rose tinted glasses ... but if your team loses by 20/30 points Should you blame the ref's ... or blame your team ... am I wrong ? Roger was a great fella - but he actually played for England as well back in his day so he was about the best there was at understanding all sides of an argument and could articulate himself in a way that few could.
Neil's body language was a lot worse than he was at times I thought. He used to get on my t*ts when I first started watching basketball and I thought he was very much "me me me" but actually, when you speak to him he would explain himself and he'd be ok. He wasn't a fan of people making a big deal out of talking to him though - was definitely a case of "speak to me how you'd like to be spoken to" type and I had no problem with that.
Steve Wheatcroft and John Wells were two of the leagues absolute gentlemen as well. Wells I think is still something to do with BE (or recently resigned in the absolute farce that is our governing body).
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Referees
Feb 1, 2019 19:25:58 GMT
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2NFR likes this
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 19:25:58 GMT
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Referees
Feb 1, 2019 21:18:23 GMT
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Post by number6 on Feb 1, 2019 21:18:23 GMT
Hope you guys saw all the home calls
Particularly down the stretch
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Post by notoriousbigz on Feb 1, 2019 21:21:00 GMT
Hope you guys saw all the home calls Particularly down the stretch Unsworth male was markedly shocking to be fair. |
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Feb 1, 2019 22:42:03 GMT
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Post by number6 on Feb 1, 2019 22:42:03 GMT
Fair play Bigz
In all honesty I expected another barrage
We have a combination of maybe 5 refs time and again
And after game after game of the same , it wears you down
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Feb 1, 2019 23:11:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 23:11:49 GMT
Fridays are the problem. They all have real jobs so it shrinks the available pool of refs.
If you really believe all 5 hate you, you may want to ask why.
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Referees
Feb 2, 2019 11:19:19 GMT
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Post by dyb dyb on Feb 2, 2019 11:19:19 GMT
Fridays are the problem. They all have real jobs so it shrinks the available pool of refs. If you really believe all 5 hate you, you may want to ask why. I may have the answer to that. After having a good chat with some one after the game last night. I found it very interesting and intriguing. Sorry I feel that I cant say too much as it will betray that persons trust and it may land myself and or that person in to trouble by speaking about it openly on a public forum. One thing that I can say is that Mr Unsworth's main job is the development of referees. |
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Post by saintpat on Feb 2, 2019 12:00:36 GMT
I could talk about referees for hours!!! But I couldn't & wouldn't do their job! I have been known to criticise them both verbally & in writing! I think a few even have voodoo dolls of me! In years gone by, I've created a mini-storm by calling a ref an idiot, resulting in posts being deleted on here by request from someone in the BBL/EBL and had a long conversation with a referee assessor who couldn't quite believe what all the fuss was about!
Over the years, I've seen good & bad, Roger Harrison is certainly one of the best I've seen, he is also one of the few who actually acknowledges I exist! Roger never seemed to take personalities into account, he always looked like he based his decisions on what happened, not who was playing, there are others who don't do that.
I think fans opinions are often clouded by how often we see the referees, if I only see a ref 3-4 times a year, I'm less likely to have a negative opinion than one I see 15 times a year(they have far more opportunities to piss me off!).
I even change my mind about some, Gavin Williams(the only referee to ever give me the finger!) looks quite a good ref to me now & I've even mellowed towards Keith Williams(doesn't stop me giving him constructive criticism on occasions!!).
The ones I really get irritated with are the ones who guess, if you don't know don't guess!! It's a jump ball-simple!! & the ones who make judgments on personality not actions(or lack of them).
But as I said at the top, I wouldn't do their job, you don't often get praised for doing a decent job, but hammered when you make far less mistakes than the players or coaches!
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