jimboi
Rookie
Posts: 63
Favourite Team: Plymouth Raiders
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Referees
Jan 26, 2019 14:07:35 GMT
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Post by jimboi on Jan 26, 2019 14:07:35 GMT
I see alot of criticism of some particular referees and some dubious decisions made by them during games.
Is there any feedback given to the league by the playing teams or a referee mentor/coach who checks up on referees as to their performance and perhaps a report from each of the referees on the other referees performance in the game - similar to 360 degree appraisal?
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Post by foxprorawks on Jan 26, 2019 14:24:50 GMT
I see alot of criticism of some particular referees and some dubious decisions made by them during games. Is there any feedback given to the league by the playing teams or a referee mentor/coach who checks up on referees as to their performance and perhaps a report from each of the referees on the other referees performance in the game - similar to 360 degree appraisal? You do see a lot of criticism of referees here, particularly recently. Even basketball officials are human, and as such they make mistakes. A "bad call" by a referee definitely gets a lot more criticism than a player missing a free throw or an easy layup. But consider this: can a basketball fan, with no prior officiating experience at any level, call the game better from his seat than an official on the floor can? Somehow, I doubt it. |
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tigger
Bench Player
Posts: 125 
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by tigger on Jan 26, 2019 17:01:01 GMT
I see alot of criticism of some particular referees and some dubious decisions made by them during games. Is there any feedback given to the league by the playing teams or a referee mentor/coach who checks up on referees as to their performance and perhaps a report from each of the referees on the other referees performance in the game - similar to 360 degree appraisal? You do see a lot of criticism of referees here, particularly recently. Even basketball officials are human, and as such they make mistakes. A "bad call" by a referee definitely gets a lot more criticism than a player missing a free throw or an easy layup. But consider this: can a basketball fan, with no prior officiating experience at any level, call the game better from his seat than an official on the floor can? Somehow, I doubt it. Doesn't stop us trying though!!  |
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Post by tonyleopard on Jan 26, 2019 17:11:55 GMT
In all honesty, how many games have you watched as a neutral and said the refs decided the outcome? Compare that to when its your own team playing. I am as guilty as the next man on thinking refs have an agenda sometimes. But realistically it's just our blinkers talking.
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Post by foxprorawks on Jan 26, 2019 17:42:56 GMT
In all honesty, how many games have you watched as a neutral and said the refs decided the outcome? Compare that to when its your own team playing. I am as guilty as the next man on thinking refs have an agenda sometimes. But realistically it's just our blinkers talking. Yep, been there, done that  |
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jimboi
Rookie
Posts: 63
Favourite Team: Plymouth Raiders
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Referees
Jan 26, 2019 23:53:09 GMT
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Post by jimboi on Jan 26, 2019 23:53:09 GMT
You do see a lot of criticism of referees here, particularly recently. Even basketball officials are human, and as such they make mistakes. A "bad call" by a referee definitely gets a lot more criticism than a player missing a free throw or an easy layup. But consider this: can a basketball fan, with no prior officiating experience at any level, call the game better from his seat than an official on the floor can? Somehow, I doubt it. Doesn't stop us trying though!! ...... Which is why I was attempting to ascertain if there was any formal mechanism |
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Post by foxprorawks on Jan 27, 2019 0:26:15 GMT
My understanding is that a BBL club can submit a complaint, with video evidence, if they feel that there has been an issue with officiating in a particular game.
It was a long time ago, but I'm sure I remember Eagles putting in a complaint after an away game at Plymouth, and I believe that their complaint was upheld.
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nixed
Bench Player
Posts: 105
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Post by nixed on Jan 27, 2019 9:57:17 GMT
I often speak to refs after the game and ask why did they make this call or that call and boy when they explain the call most of the time I think damn I don't know this game as much as I thought
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Post by foxprorawks on Jan 27, 2019 10:22:55 GMT
I often speak to refs after the game and ask why did they make this call or that call and boy when they explain the call most of the time I think damn I don't know this game as much as I thought This. |
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Post by blueskies99 on Jan 27, 2019 10:50:08 GMT
I often speak to refs after the game and ask why did they make this call or that call and boy when they explain the call most of the time I think damn I don't know this game as much as I thought Probably the best post that's ever been on Whatsbev. |
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2NFR
Global Moderator 
Posts: 6,297
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by 2NFR on Jan 27, 2019 11:24:45 GMT
Can anybody remember that case years ago where a ref was actually suspended from officiating and relegated to the lower levels ( and retrain ?) I know we talked about it a bit on ye' old whatsbev ... but I can't remember the details !! My point is ... how bad do you have to be before your fellow peers realise that your skills are not up to scratch. ...Are referees the right people to judge/assess their fellow referees ? ... Who can ? edit apologies ... my English is crap on this post  |
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2NFR
Global Moderator
Posts: 6,297
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by 2NFR on Jan 27, 2019 11:27:57 GMT
Was it Bob ?
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Referees
Jan 27, 2019 11:35:57 GMT
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Post by stevetino on Jan 27, 2019 11:35:57 GMT
I often speak to refs after the game and ask why did they make this call or that call and boy when they explain the call most of the time I think damn I don't know this game as much as I thought I’m surprised they waited around to be asked, refs often can’t get out of arenas fast enough especially if the atmosphere is heated?? |
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Post by foxprorawks on Jan 27, 2019 12:31:22 GMT
Can anybody remember that case years ago where a ref was actually suspended from officiating and relegated to the lower levels ( and retrain ?) I know we talked about it a bit on ye' old whatsbev ... but I can't remember the details !! My point is ... how bad do you have to be before your fellow peers realise that your skills are not up to scratch. ...Are referees the right people to judge/assess their fellow referees ? ... Who can ? edit apologies ... my English is crap on this post Clearly fans are the best people to assess floor officials. Failing that, maybe Rob P. could do it LOL. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:27:28 GMT
No. Though he fell out with just about everyone |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 17:46:39 GMT
It doesn't take too much training to see that a ball has hit a player before going out of bounds (re final today).
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jan 27, 2019 20:09:47 GMT
Get over it. OMG, you'd think this was the most staggering incident compared with Rocks not being able to hit a barn door with a banjo for ages!
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dc
Bench Player
Posts: 169
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Referees
Jan 27, 2019 20:37:35 GMT
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Post by dc on Jan 27, 2019 20:37:35 GMT
Rocks averaging 99 over last 3 games but this is about referees.
Not seeing who last touched the ball - and it’s not like it was marginal, speaks volumes about their competency.
Irony is as much as the bald ref isn’t exactly popular, if he’d been there today he’d have put the lions in foul trouble early and potentially changed the game.
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Post by sharkfan on Jan 27, 2019 20:55:11 GMT
DC hit the nail on the head, different refs give different outcomes as they are not consistent.
Here is the FIBA rule on Illegal screens
33.7. Screening: Legal and illegal Screening is an attempt to delay or prevent an opponent without the ball from reaching a desired position on the playing court. Legal screening is when the player who is screening an opponent: Was stationary (inside his cylinder) when contact occurred. Had both feet on the floor when contact occurred. Illegal screening is when the player who is screening an opponent: Was moving when contact occurred. Did not give sufficient distance in setting a screen outside the field of vision of a stationary opponent when contact occurred. Did not respect the elements of time and distance of an opponent in motion when contact occurred.
October 2017 OFFICIAL BASKETBALL RULES 2017 Page 39 of 90
If the screen is set within the field of vision of a stationary opponent (front or lateral), the screener may establish the screen as close to him as he wishes, provided there is no contact. If the screen is set outside the field of vision of a stationary opponent, the screener must permit the opponent to take 1 normal step towards the screen without making contact. If the opponent is in motion, the elements of time and distance shall apply. The screener must leave enough space so that the player who is being screened is able to avoid the screen by stopping or changing direction. The distance required is never less than 1 and never more than 2 normal steps. A player who is legally screened is responsible for any contact with the player who has set the screen. 33.8. Charging Charging is illegal personal contact, with or without the ball, by pushing or moving into an opponent’s torso.
LOOK AT THE PICKS BRISTOL SETS FOR ROBINSON, CLEARLY OUTSIDE HIS CYLINDER AND MOVING ON LOTS OF OCCASIONS
THEN LOOK AT THE FOUL ON COOK FROM THE SUNS IN THE FIRST QTR OF THE WBBL FINAL, LOOKS LIKE A DIFFERENT GAME
HOW THE GAME IS CALLED CHANGES THE GAME AND ITS INCONSISTENT, HENCE STUPID TECH FOULS AND ODD OUTCOMES
ODD BAD CALLS HERE AND THERE ARE TO BE EXPECTED (HAPPENS IN ALL LEAGUES) BUT PATTERNS OF CALLS DICTATES HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED
REFS ALLOWED TOO MUCH PHYSICAL PLAY TODAY
POOR SPECTACLE
ARRGGHHH
PLUS BOTH TO TEAMS STRUGGLED TO SHOOT WITH NO OBVIOUS REASONS WHY
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Post by youngnixfan on Jan 28, 2019 9:42:18 GMT
Please Flyers fans this is not a reaction to the game on Saturday, even though we WON, its trying to add to the thread theme.
Whats the ruling on shirt pulling/arm grabbing which 1 big Flyer was adept at along with screenings which is been talked about.
I suppose the grabbing sometimes happens so quick and discretely that get missed by our friends but funnily enough not by fans
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Referees
Jan 28, 2019 15:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 15:49:08 GMT
Moving screen, and lack of 3 second calls in the paint are 2 of my main gripes with the refereeing in the BBL.
Most bigs in the league (and I include the Giants in this) may set their feet, but then move their body towards the offensive player. Sometimes they even move their feet towards them too.
Both these should be called, but I have not seen 1 screen foul called all season.
Having said that, I do it a lot when I play too!! 🤔
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Post by traceygm on Jan 29, 2019 6:10:05 GMT
I have been involved with the league since 1980 when there was only 2 refs per game & watced some very poor reffing. But I now feel the reffing standards in the league with 3 refs per game is woeful. You would expect with 3 pairs of eyes more 3 seconds, less ify out of bounds & that fouls that clearly show the player played the man & not the ball called not ignored.
Ref do get assessed at games, but what actually happens when they have a nightmare game to put things right is anyone’s guess.
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Post by samgray on Jan 29, 2019 9:50:28 GMT
Rocks averaging 99 over last 3 games but this is about referees. Not seeing who last touched the ball - and it’s not like it was marginal, speaks volumes about their competency. Irony is as much as the bald ref isn’t exactly popular, if he’d been there today he’d have put the lions in foul trouble early and potentially changed the game. You could ref or alternatively offer to teach all of the current referees how to do so? |
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Post by sussexbantam on Jan 29, 2019 11:20:45 GMT
Rocks averaging 99 over last 3 games but this is about referees. Not seeing who last touched the ball - and it’s not like it was marginal, speaks volumes about their competency. Irony is as much as the bald ref isn’t exactly popular, if he’d been there today he’d have put the lions in foul trouble early and potentially changed the game. You could ref or alternatively offer to teach all of the current referees how to do so? I've tried refereeing. I wasn't very good at it. I stopped. I can still be critical of the incompetence on show in the BBL though. I also shot 60% from the free throw line when I played but I can still be critical of professional players missing... |
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Post by connors on Jan 29, 2019 11:35:22 GMT
In my opinion if the standard of refs in the BBL is so poor the best thing the clubs can do is complain when they win and not just when they lose.
Complaints about officials do not change the outcome of a game so there is nothing to lose by being honest and I think if a team wins and complains it carries more weight and avoids the sour grapes argument.
That is of course if the refs are as bad as some think......
I've recently reluctantly agreed to go on a refs course. I do not look forward to it one bit and frankly begrudge the weekend it will cost me. However as somebody who has benefitted playing this game for 30 years and with a basketball made 7 yr old I felt like it would be useful to be able to help do some junior games. I think I will be a terrible ref and have nothing but respect for the vast majority of people who do it. In games I have played or coached in I can only recall once ever believing that a ref was deliberately bias and less than a handful where poor officiating might have truly impacted the result. I accept that as the standard rises the margins shrink and decisions become more critical.
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