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Post by gerrymac on Jul 7, 2019 22:22:26 GMT
I may have missed it but are any teams planning on entering Europe this year?
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Post by number23 on Jul 8, 2019 7:14:17 GMT
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Post by boshspice on Jul 8, 2019 8:42:16 GMT
Not a huge surprise to me either.
Personally I thought Riders foray last year was a real disappointment for the team itself. From what Riders management, players and fans expected/ predicted last off-season, it has to be viewed as such.
The European adventure obviously caused a big division in the Riders camp, and that was reflected in their BBL regular season play. The Trayvonn Wright saga was laughable and has had a definite ripple effect onto players decisions to re-sign for them this season (was Wayne Martin really worth the trouble?!). The team chemistry and balance seemed off (Burnett clearly playing for his own stats to get exposure being another side factor in this). Rob P has to take the blame and full responsibility for that.
One thing that didn’t go un-noticed were the exceptionally low attendances at Riders home games. I understand that the games were played mid-week and at short notice in some cases (not easy for kids/ to come straight from work); however, Guildford in 2008 had the same situation and routinely had over 1000 spectators (they even had to move one game against the eventual winners Joventut into the ice rink to expand the seating). Why was that the case? Poor advertising?
Ultimately, the Riders gave it a go. Of course a factor in Riders not winning a game was the fact that they were facing teams with bigger budgets, but internal unrest wouldn’t have helped with bridging that gap. In the end, changes were made, and they re-grouped to become play-off champions again (albeit far less convincingly than in previous years- still, winning is winning).
Time will tell how successful going to Europe was for Riders. I’m still not convinced that the positive outweighed the negative, evidenced by the fact that they are not re-entering this year and are facing a major rebuild if rumours are to be believed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 9:25:25 GMT
Notwithstanding the above, I think the Riders got very unlucky with the draw. A couple of early wins in the group, maybe things would have looked different?
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jul 8, 2019 10:05:06 GMT
Not a huge surprise to me either. Personally I thought Riders foray last year was a real disappointment for the team itself. From what Riders management, players and fans expected/ predicted last off-season, it has to be viewed as such. The European adventure obviously caused a big division in the Riders camp, and that was reflected in their BBL regular season play. The Trayvonn Wright saga was laughable and has had a definite ripple effect onto players decisions to re-sign for them this season (was Wayne Martin really worth the trouble?!). The team chemistry and balance seemed off (Burnett clearly playing for his own stats to get exposure being another side factor in this). Rob P has to take the blame and full responsibility for that. One thing that didn’t go un-noticed were the exceptionally low attendances at Riders home games. I understand that the games were played mid-week and at short notice in some cases (not easy for kids/ to come straight from work); however, Guildford in 2008 had the same situation and routinely had over 1000 spectators (they even had to move one game against the eventual winners Joventut into the ice rink to expand the seating). Why was that the case? Poor advertising? Ultimately, the Riders gave it a go. Of course a factor in Riders not winning a game was the fact that they were facing teams with bigger budgets, but internal unrest wouldn’t have helped with bridging that gap. In the end, changes were made, and they re-grouped to become play-off champions again (albeit far less convincingly than in previous years- still, winning is winning). Time will tell how successful going to Europe was for Riders. I’m still not convinced that the positive outweighed the negative, evidenced by the fact that they are not re-entering this year and are facing a major rebuild if rumours are to be believed. I think the Wright affair may well have influenced some players (we shall see in due course perhaps) but I don't think the Europe experiment affected the results in the league much. We played well in the European games despite not winning. Larsson wasn't up to the job and disappointed hugely. Their centres were therefore able to score pretty freely against us. Injuries to key players also hampered us at times and we lost several games in a short spell which cost us the league. We clearly weren't the dominant team we were in the previous two seasons BUT winning the playoffs cup emphatically when we were written off by many and coming second in the league isn't too shabby I'm thinking. If we have a virtually complete rebuild then so be it. I'm excited to see what Riders will look like. Rob Paternostro is the main reason we can be optimistic. At least he's staying for the time being. If our halcyon days are behind us I'll be rather sad about that but I can recall when winning 3 games in a whole season was about all we could achieve. We have to count our blessings. |
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Post by inaminute23 on Jul 8, 2019 10:12:37 GMT
I presume they can't afford it, otherwise why not enter?
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tvtigersfan
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Post by tvtigersfan on Jul 8, 2019 16:59:01 GMT
On Guildford, my understanding was that every game was intended to be played on the ice rink arena, as the basketball arena didn’t meet the ULEB Cup criteria. I am sure there was some sort of penalty for them switching four (Alba, Turk Telekom, Siaulai and KK Bosna) to the smaller venue. Could be wrong though as it was a long time ago...
My understanding was Royals had been offered a place in FIBA competition this season and that they were going to take it up. But given the radio silence from the club since the Riders defeat - no signings, no confirmation of where they plan to play out of next season - who knows? Maybe everything will coincide with fixture release day?
A shame not to see Lions go for it but understand the venue is a problem, in terms of availability at short notice. Riders obviously got cold feet and too soon for Eagles, even if the venue is ready?
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Post by number23 on Jul 8, 2019 22:20:16 GMT
Riders have now posted confirmation that they’ve chosen not to pursue European competition this year, having opted out of an invite from FIBA: www.leicesterriders.co.uk/news/riders-opt-out-of-europe/The article also suggests Lions turned down a similar invite, and that no BBL club will be entering at any level. There’s suggestions of building for a better-prepared attempt next season, following the lessons learned in last year’s campaign. |
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Post by r33 on Jul 9, 2019 10:40:17 GMT
One of the big issues is that the BCL qualifying rounds and FIBA Europe Cup opposition isn’t high profile to the average BBL fan and a lot of fans aren’t that clued up on tie scene outside the BBL, so it’s hard to sell midweek games. Obviously no BBL club is remotely close to Euroleague or EuroCup level but there would be an easier sell for Riders vs Barcelona or Partizan Belgrade than Riders vs Szolnok Olaj. It’s not unique to Britain, other countries’ clubs struggle to generate interest in the early rounds.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 9, 2019 15:49:02 GMT
Notwithstanding the above, I think the Riders got very unlucky with the draw. A couple of early wins in the group, maybe things would have looked different? We still wouldn't have sold tickets Midweek basketball against unknown teams is hard to sell Good luck any other teams in BBL who want to have a go though i reckon 75 per cent of basketball fans are there for family entertainment once every couple of weeks ish rather than taking the sport seriously and caring about European competition ive seen how few fans watch lions midweek. They would face the same as us. You tell me whether Glasgow or Newcastle could sell it? |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 9, 2019 15:52:20 GMT
Riders Chairman Kevin Routledge said,
“We had a balanced decision to take. Everyone involved in the club enjoyed leading BBL back into Europe, and hosting some top European clubs at the Morningside Arena.”
“The game of basketball is huge in Europe in fifty plus countries, and the fact that there are four different European Club competitions shows the strength and depth of basketball on the continent.”
“We felt we gave a very good account of ourselves on and off the court, but what the participation shows is the level of resources in the game in Europe which far outstrips in the game here.”
“Having taken part in both the Champions League Qualifications and the FIBA Europe Cup we now have a much better understanding of what is required, and we will spend the 2019/20 season looking to strengthen in those areas, on and off the court.”
“Then we can look to be more competitive in Europe in the following season, provided, of course, we qualify.”
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Post by Steven McTowelie on Jul 9, 2019 18:18:54 GMT
Notwithstanding the above, I think the Riders got very unlucky with the draw. A couple of early wins in the group, maybe things would have looked different? We still wouldn't have sold tickets Do you really believe that? Do you honestly not think that success and failure have an impact on fan interest? That a BBL team winning some games and contending for a spot in the next round would be no better supported in Europe than one that went win-less? I strongly disagree. I've essentially said all this before but we need to view those final couple of Europe Cup games last season for what they were. A struggling team with nothing to play for charging full price (or very close to it) for a couple of poorly marketed, mid-week dead rubbers. Certainly a hard sell yes but we didn't exactly try too hard. And had we won a few games and gone into our final fixture with a place in the next round on the line I personally think it would have improved the attendance significantly. If we can't sell a game like that to a respectable number of people then shame on us quite frankly. Glad Kevin Routledge sounds a little more optimistic. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 9, 2019 19:16:04 GMT
We still wouldn't have sold tickets Do you really believe that? Do you honestly not think that success and failure have an impact on fan interest? That a BBL team winning some games and contending for a spot in the next round would be no better supported in Europe than one that went win-less? I strongly disagree. I've essentially said all this before but we need to view those final couple of Europe Cup games last season for what they were. A struggling team with nothing to play for charging full price (or very close to it) for a couple of poorly marketed, mid-week dead rubbers. Certainly a hard sell yes but we didn't exactly try too hard. And had we won a few games and gone into our final fixture with a place in the next round on the line I personally think it would have improved the attendance significantly. If we can't sell a game like that to a respectable number of people then shame on us quite frankly. Glad Kevin Routledge sounds a little more optimistic. Honestly I do believe that. As I have said many times on here I get the impression most fans at Riders games have no idea about where our opposition are in the league table. They like to see us win and they like to see an exciting game. But it's not going to upset them too much when we lose. They like to see dunks etc. Many will never consider going to an away game or final etc. They will only know we've won something when it's presented on court at Riders. We've also got loyal knowledgeable fans of course who do care about results. But they are going to come to euro games if they can whether we win or lose. And that's been proven tbh with the crowds we have seen. We won't pick up any neutrals of any note for Euro matches. And midweek just doesn't work even for some of the season ticket holders and loyal fans. It certainly doesn't work for families or schools which make up most of our weekend crowd. Where do we find fans to replace the families who can't/wont come midweek? Let's also not forget Riders are competing with LCFC and Leicester Tigers for fans. In amongst all that we have normal BBL games to sell and promote Kevin is basketball through and through and would love to see more Euro basketball at riders I'm sure. The resource we need to generate to make it happen is money. If if we can somehow get to selling out weekend games and waiting lists for tickets etc then maybe we can think we might sell more euro tickets. But that looks a long way away to me. |
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jul 10, 2019 6:32:11 GMT
I may be wrong but Eagles would probably have attracted more fans if they'd been involved in Europe. They already seem to attract more fans than Riders to their BBL games and with their new venue which everyone is impressed by I suspect the home crowds will be even larger this coming season. Yet they also compete with football and rugby locally. We rarely sell out Morningside despite winning silverware. That's a concern because if we slip down the league what will happen to ticket sales? Why don't we regularly sell out?
My gut feeling is that it is mainly down to the location of our arena which is hidden away on an industrial business park. Most of the people I speak to literally don't know where Riders play - they could find the football and rugby grounds no problem because they are so visible from main arterial roads. We also rely on the goodwill of local businesses on that estate to park our cars. What if that changed? We'd attract even fewer numbers I imagine. I think Soulsby let the club down by insisting where we built.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 7:29:21 GMT
The problem with the Riders fan base is that there isn't one. I read on a report from Kevin that 90% of fans attend just 2 games a year. That's why they dont know who's in the league or what league they play. You dont have a fan base who are well fans really.
Newcastle have such a huge community programme, 30 paid community coaches (I highly doubt any other team come close to that) that they will have an invested fan base thus bigger game night attendees. I dont know the riders true Development programme (not including the academies and uni teams as they dont pay to watch games anywhere near as much a children) but I guess the problems lays there.
For example Raiders near on aold out our game against London with 1 days notice. Last saturday we had 100 players turn up to try out for just 3 development teams. There a real passion for basketball in our city. Without that passion you can chuck all the money you want at it but it wont increase your fan base on a permanent basis.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 7:30:12 GMT
I also think it's a shame we dont have a euro team. Pointless doing it once and while, we need a team to regularly be at that level for it to make a difference
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Post by leamrider2 on Jul 11, 2019 8:54:14 GMT
The problem with the Riders fan base is that there isn't one. I read on a report from Kevin that 90% of fans attend just 2 games a year. That's why they dont know who's in the league or what league they play. You dont have a fan base who are well fans really. ... I don't know whether that is true or not but it doesn't really square with what I observe at games. Since I started going regularly (must be about a decade ago) the attendance has been on an upward curve. The number of season ticket sales has also been on an upward curve and I'd say that its growth has well outstripped the overall number (that is, season ticket holders are a much greater percentage of the total than before). Certainly the Victory Stand (that is, behind the benches) is thickly populated with season tickets holders and other regular visitors. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 11, 2019 9:00:43 GMT
The problem with the Riders fan base is that there isn't one. I read on a report from Kevin that 90% of fans attend just 2 games a year. That's why they dont know who's in the league or what league they play. You dont have a fan base who are well fans really. ... I don't know whether that is true or not but it doesn't really square with what I observe at games. Since I started going regularly (must be about a decade ago) the attendance has been on an upward curve. The number of season ticket sales has also been on an upward curve and I'd say that its growth has well outstripped the overall number (that is, season ticket holders are a much greater percentage of the total than before). Certainly the Victory Stand (that is, behind the benches) is thickly populated with season tickets holders and other regular visitors. Kevin must mean 90 per cent of non season ticket holders attend twice a year. I can believe that. There is a big difference between enjoying the odd day out and odd game than becoming an avid fan. Too many alternatives for families and too many other commitments on weekends with their own sport etc. Certainly not helped with irregular days when games are played. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 16:42:32 GMT
That's what I meant what IRF said
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Post by leamrider2 on Jul 12, 2019 7:11:45 GMT
Thanks for the clarification. It's probably true (or at least, close to it is true) for most sports clubs. I occasionally go to see Coventry Blaze ice hockey: twice a season, tops. I occasionally go to see football: used to go a lot. Now, twice a season anywhere, tops. One cricket game last year. None of it is going to compel me to turn any of them from twice into five, ten games and then season ticket.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 10:59:09 GMT
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 13, 2019 13:14:15 GMT
Watching basketball is like going to the cinema or theatre for most families
It's just one of many things to do every so often
Its not a weekly commitment they will make
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 14:59:10 GMT
Watching basketball is like going to the cinema or theatre for most families It's just one of many things to do every so often Its not a weekly commitment they will make Interesting discussion. I agree I get a sense that it is more entertainment than sport for some of the fans (no judgement implied) and to be brutally honest the quality of the sporting offering within the bbl probably backs that up |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 15:41:05 GMT
To be honest I wish most of the BBL teams play in Europe next season in 2020-21 they should put
Riders
Lions
Eagles
Royals
Rocks
and
Raiders all in it
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