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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 12, 2019 11:13:32 GMT
Basically correct I believe, although I don't think London was 3rd choice. I don't think it was even considered as a choice due to lack of suitable venue, until the Copper Box came up as a possibility, then it was the clear winner in choice. (because of Tigers not agreeing to a merger) Tigers didn't do it because he offered them nothing. Just "I'll come and coach and have 50% of your franchise, ta".
Vince has taken debt with him everywhere. He was ran out of MK, playing in a shopping centre because he owed every venue he played out of money.
I spoke with a very prominent British player he had for a few years in MK who literally frog marched him to a bank once to get his monthly salary.
That being said I don't dislike the guy as much as people may think. His staying power is more than admirable, and he's managed to get a fully competitive (and winning) product on the floor every year since I've been following the BBL. That in itself is to be admired - he's been through recession, re-location, god knows what other troubles and managed to come out on top - many other franchises have failed and I have to respect him for pulling it out the bag time after time.
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Post by youngrocks on Dec 12, 2019 12:13:59 GMT
Bigz thats half the reason i question if maybe all his chances have been used up.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 12, 2019 12:22:07 GMT
Bigz thats half the reason i question if maybe all his chances have been used up. I guess for anyone there's only so many times you can run. |
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Post by LTFan on Dec 12, 2019 13:46:22 GMT
Well I guess only time will tell. But having had the chance to build a one hall (two court) venue with room for around 1600. but opted to go for separate halls with only room for 500 (maybe 600 if you squeeze some chairs in behind the baskets) it's questionable if they're interested in BBL. It's not just a case of knocking a wall down. Absolutely, it was a questionable decision if they have any possible desire at all to play in the BBL somewhere in the future. But I also think the BBL would be mad to decline a team’s entry into the league in certain circumstances just because they only have a 500 capacity venue. |
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Post by LTFan on Dec 12, 2019 14:02:15 GMT
(because of Tigers not agreeing to a merger) Tigers didn't do it because he offered them nothing. Just "I'll come and coach and have 50% of your franchise, ta".
Vince has taken debt with him everywhere. He was ran out of MK, playing in a shopping centre because he owed every venue he played out of money.
I spoke with a very prominent British player he had for a few years in MK who literally frog marched him to a bank once to get his monthly salary.
That being said I don't dislike the guy as much as people may think. His staying power is more than admirable, and he's managed to get a fully competitive (and winning) product on the floor every year since I've been following the BBL. That in itself is to be admired - he's been through recession, re-location, god knows what other troubles and managed to come out on top - many other franchises have failed and I have to respect him for pulling it out the bag time after time.
I don’t believe a Lions/Tigers merger would have offered no benefit for Tigers. From what I remember they weren’t in a good place financially, and were woeful on the court. I think I’m right in saying the following season they didn’t achieve a single win. And then, somewhat predictably, they folded. If they had merged with Lions I suspect Liverpool would still have a team in the BBL to this day. I’m not going to say Vince hasn’t had (and likely has) debts. Which team hasn’t over the years? But debt isn’t the sole reason for moving the franchise around venues and locations. And I do believe that if it wasn’t for Vince the Lions franchise would have folded at several points over the past 20 years. That’s why I also believe Lions have some longevity yet. Being brutally honest, I suspect they’ll be kicked out of the Copper Box at some point in the next few seasons. But I think Vince will just look to re-locate again, probably within London. And if Lions are the only London franchise at that time I suspect the BBL will be happy to bend a few rules to keep a London presence. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 12, 2019 14:45:09 GMT
Tigers didn't do it because he offered them nothing. Just "I'll come and coach and have 50% of your franchise, ta".
Vince has taken debt with him everywhere. He was ran out of MK, playing in a shopping centre because he owed every venue he played out of money.
I spoke with a very prominent British player he had for a few years in MK who literally frog marched him to a bank once to get his monthly salary.
That being said I don't dislike the guy as much as people may think. His staying power is more than admirable, and he's managed to get a fully competitive (and winning) product on the floor every year since I've been following the BBL. That in itself is to be admired - he's been through recession, re-location, god knows what other troubles and managed to come out on top - many other franchises have failed and I have to respect him for pulling it out the bag time after time.
I don’t believe a Lions/Tigers merger would have offered no benefit for Tigers. From what I remember they weren’t in a good place financially, and were woeful on the court. I think I’m right in saying the following season they didn’t achieve a single win. And then, somewhat predictably, they folded. If they had merged with Lions I suspect Liverpool would still have a team in the BBL to this day. I’m not going to say Vince hasn’t had (and likely has) debts. Which team hasn’t over the years? But debt isn’t the sole reason for moving the franchise around venues and locations. And I do believe that if it wasn’t for Vince the Lions franchise would have folded at several points over the past 20 years. That’s why I also believe Lions have some longevity yet. Being brutally honest, I suspect they’ll be kicked out of the Copper Box at some point in the next few seasons. But I think Vince will just look to re-locate again, probably within London. And if Lions are the only London franchise at that time I suspect the BBL will be happy to bend a few rules to keep a London presence. Yeah mate I was inside the camp at the time playing for Tigers - I know full well what happened. He wasn't going to bring any money into the club himself and I'm not sure (despite him being a scouser) how he'd manage to relocate up north and be able to have sway with any potential sponsors. He offered himself and that was basically it. Liverpool wouldn't have a team in the BBL to this day, Vince would have just gone down with the ship.
I don't doubt the Lions would have gone under, the guys made of Teflon and I think I said that's to his credit if I'm not mistaken?
I'd wager he's had/got more debt than most in this league.
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Post by LTFan on Dec 12, 2019 16:23:36 GMT
I don’t believe a Lions/Tigers merger would have offered no benefit for Tigers. From what I remember they weren’t in a good place financially, and were woeful on the court. I think I’m right in saying the following season they didn’t achieve a single win. And then, somewhat predictably, they folded. If they had merged with Lions I suspect Liverpool would still have a team in the BBL to this day. I’m not going to say Vince hasn’t had (and likely has) debts. Which team hasn’t over the years? But debt isn’t the sole reason for moving the franchise around venues and locations. And I do believe that if it wasn’t for Vince the Lions franchise would have folded at several points over the past 20 years. That’s why I also believe Lions have some longevity yet. Being brutally honest, I suspect they’ll be kicked out of the Copper Box at some point in the next few seasons. But I think Vince will just look to re-locate again, probably within London. And if Lions are the only London franchise at that time I suspect the BBL will be happy to bend a few rules to keep a London presence. Yeah mate I was inside the camp at the time playing for Tigers - I know full well what happened. He wasn't going to bring any money into the club himself and I'm not sure (despite him being a scouser) how he'd manage to relocate up north and be able to have sway with any potential sponsors. He offered himself and that was basically it. Liverpool wouldn't have a team in the BBL to this day, Vince would have just gone down with the ship.
I don't doubt the Lions would have gone under, the guys made of Teflon and I think I said that's to his credit if I'm not mistaken?
I'd wager he's had/got more debt than most in this league.
Fair point. But look at it another way, what was the advantage of Tigers not merging with Lions? Weren’t they a sinking ship at that point, so surely doing something would have been better than doing nothing? It might not have worked, and the Tigers may have still folded… but wasn’t a merger worth a punt? By the way I’m just interested in the logic behind the decision, I’m not pretending I know more about what went on in Liverpool than you do. All this talk of mergers is reminding me of the Crystal Palace/London Towers merger back in my early years of following the BBL. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 12, 2019 16:39:31 GMT
Yeah mate I was inside the camp at the time playing for Tigers - I know full well what happened. He wasn't going to bring any money into the club himself and I'm not sure (despite him being a scouser) how he'd manage to relocate up north and be able to have sway with any potential sponsors. He offered himself and that was basically it. Liverpool wouldn't have a team in the BBL to this day, Vince would have just gone down with the ship.
I don't doubt the Lions would have gone under, the guys made of Teflon and I think I said that's to his credit if I'm not mistaken?
I'd wager he's had/got more debt than most in this league.
Fair point. But look at it another way, what was the advantage of Tigers not merging with Lions? Weren’t they a sinking ship at that point, so surely doing something would have been better than doing nothing? It might not have worked, and the Tigers may have still folded… but wasn’t a merger worth a punt? By the way I’m just interested in the logic behind the decision, I’m not pretending I know more about what went on in Liverpool than you do. All this talk of mergers is reminding me of the Crystal Palace/London Towers merger back in my early years of following the BBL. From a basketball perspective yeah, probably would have ran another season or so. From a business perspective - our owners had worked out they werent going to earn a penny and didnt want to throw good money after bad. They basically pulled out and let the team rot in their final season. They saw it as cutting their losses rather than prolonging the expenditure they were having to drain season on season. They were charlatans to be fair. |
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Post by saintpat on Dec 12, 2019 18:43:50 GMT
There is no way that Lions would still have a team if it wasn't for Vince, he does whatever is necessary to keep a team on court, without him I would not have a basketball team to support.
Bigz, I think you under-estimate him, if he'd moved to Liverpool (I'm very pleased he didn't) then I really believe you'd still have a BBL team, his resilience seems to know no bounds.
On the subject of MK, yes there were issues, yes the council didn't want to help him anymore, but there wasn't actually a venue he could use. When Bletchley was rebuilt it wasn't big enough. MK Dons took any decent sponsorship money in the area & the arena next to the football club!!! Well I think I'd rather deal with Vince than Winkleman!!(Although Della did manage to face paint him at a BBL final one year to show his support for Lions!!)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 21:00:28 GMT
It's unfortunate Della didn't accidentally stab him in the eye with other end of a paint brush
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Post by benji on Jan 23, 2020 20:41:37 GMT
Love this. 1. Royals  2. Lions 3. Giants 4. Scorchers 5. Phoenix 6. Rocks 7. Sharks 8. Flyers 9. Raiders 10. Wolves 11. Riders/Eagles Is it too early to do this??? |
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Post by baldereagle on Jan 24, 2020 12:58:25 GMT
I remember when there used to be some Royals - weren't they called Harry and Meghan ?
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 24, 2020 13:13:36 GMT
Love this. 1. Royals 2. Lions 3. Giants 4. Scorchers 5. Phoenix 6. Rocks 7. Sharks 8. Flyers 9. Raiders 10. Wolves 11. Riders/Eagles Is it too early to do this??? No Sir it is not.
Funny, Worthing lasted longer in this BBL season that London Royals, and they play in D1. Go figure!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 20:47:10 GMT
The difference is obvious. Thunder are a proper club. Royals never were.
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Post by benji on Jun 26, 2021 6:09:14 GMT
Love this. 1. Royals🥇 2. Lions 3. Giants 4. Scorchers 5. Phoenix 6. Rocks 7. Sharks 8. Flyers 9. Raiders 10. Wolves🥈⁉️ 11. Riders/Eagles Well, that was unexpected! |
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Post by reallyoldfeenixfan on Jun 26, 2021 7:18:51 GMT
Very Very interesting. Looking back through this thread there are some thoughts that are amazingly accurate. Mind you some are way off too, eh, Bigz?
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Post by raiders92 on Jun 26, 2021 18:11:15 GMT
Love this. 1. Royals🥇 2. Lions 3. Giants 4. Scorchers 5. Phoenix 6. Rocks 7. Sharks 8. Flyers 9. Raiders 10. Wolves🥈⁉️ 11. Riders/Eagles Well, that was unexpected! Raiders in 9th doesn't look so secure! |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jun 27, 2021 17:10:43 GMT
Raiders in 9th doesn't look so secure! I agree Raiders don’t look that secure, anyone else worry the Turkish investors will get bored and kick us to the kerb they don’t care about us and our city? Something doesn’t sit easy with me, I don’t trust them. They are releasing players and not signing anyone for the sister club in Turkey. No mention of somewhere fo play either. What are they doing to our club? Lot of unknowns for clubs at the moment Hard to plan and budget We don't have new season start date yet do we? Does the Turkish league start soon? |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jun 27, 2021 17:25:50 GMT
Lot of unknowns for clubs at the moment Hard to plan and budget We don't have new season start date yet do we? Agreed it’s been a tough year with Covid. Sure the clubs have an idea of when the season starts even if we don’t have specifics. Raiders don’t have anywhere to play due to the greed of another rich dude (James Brent) just seems very quiet in the Raiders camp. My gutt doesn’t trust the Turkish investors You could be right Many clubs will still be trying to figure out what they can risk spending on wages though and checking what level of support their sponsors can give etc Whilst guessing on crowd income Just 3 weeks ago Wolves were advertising for new sponsors on their social media 3 weeks later they drop out of the league Plus all the venues Raiders might want to play in will be dealing with their own unknowns and problems at the same time Hard to plan or commit to anything with confidence still and will be for a while yet |
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Post by reallyoldfeenixfan on Jun 27, 2021 19:08:08 GMT
In the middle of all this uncertainty Nix have already confirmed 5 signings including 4 Brits. Hopefully the signs are there of a steady season,these days you can't really hope for more than that.
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jun 28, 2021 6:00:17 GMT
Javid appears to want to open up the economy a.s.a.p. by abolishing remaining restrictions quickly. Suspect that that will happen soon regardless of data from SAGE. Pretty sure that Johnson & Sunak will also be desperate to get the economy moving by allowing venues, theatres etc to fully open.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jul 11, 2021 15:39:41 GMT
Love this. 1. Royals🥇 2. Lions 3. Giants 4. Scorchers 5. Phoenix 6. Rocks 7. Sharks 8. Flyers 9. Raiders🥉 10. Wolves🥈⁉️ 11. Riders/Eagles Well, that was unexpected! 1,9 and 10 gone now Anyone confident there won't be more to come next couple of months? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2021 15:42:28 GMT
To be fair only 1 is actually gone, the other 2 have withdrawn from the bbl
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Post by faz on Jul 11, 2021 22:11:50 GMT
In the middle of all this uncertainty Nix have already confirmed 5 signings including 4 Brits. Hopefully the signs are there of a steady season,these days you can't really hope for more than that. I reckon you’ll make play offs next year |
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