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Post by benji on Dec 10, 2019 9:24:40 GMT
On the assumption that the current 12 BBL clubs won't be around still in 1,000 years, what order do you see them falling? Number 1 is the first to fail.
This is just for fun, and purely opinion based!
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 10, 2019 9:36:17 GMT
Love this.
1. Royals
2. Lions
3. Giants
4. Scorchers
5. Phoenix
6. Rocks
7. Sharks
8. Flyers
9. Raiders
10. Wolves
11. Riders/Eagles
Obviously the two with their own arenas are last to go - not to mention the foundations they both have with great community programmes. Wolves I think have enough backing and a solid fanbase win lose or massive race row that carves half their season apart, Raiders and Flyers both have solid ownership and fanbases (could probably interchange places 8-10 on the list tbh), Sharks because they've been around forever, Rocks again seem solid but have had a few up down moments with the new lad in charge, Phoenix have diced with near death before, Scorchers and Giants have been managing on shoestrings for a while and its just doom and gloom for LDN at the moment.
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Post by benji on Dec 10, 2019 10:25:05 GMT
Thinking about it, I expect most people will have something similar. Will be interesting nonetheless to look back in years to come and see if they go in that order!
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 10, 2019 10:43:25 GMT
I mean, the logic can work a number of different ways. I'm only really dead certain about Eagles and Riders, and my next safest prediction would be Royals (their owner may throw good money after bad, but I highly doubt it).
Lions too have survived many a year and more troublesome times than this no doubt. Giants may (although I'm fairly certain they wont) get the new arena they promised a few years ago and attract sponsorship as a result, Scorchers may have survived on a shoestring but done it in a sustainable way to keep them going long term, and it might be that Flyers multimillionaire investors get fed up of the whole thing and Worcester uni decide enough is enough.
It may even be that the first season the Sharks don't make the playoffs they think the whole things pointless and call it a day. Who knows?!?!
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Post by massiveridersfan on Dec 10, 2019 12:41:03 GMT
If Rob Paternostro moved on and Riders fell down the table with little or no silverware success then things could easily change drastically. Whoever takes over from him eventually will need to be very good indeed.
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Post by benji on Dec 10, 2019 12:47:34 GMT
If Rob Paternostro moved on and Riders fell down the table with little or no silverware success then things could easily change drastically. Whoever takes over from him eventually will need to be very good indeed. Yeah I don't necessarily put Riders/Eagles as the last to go. I'm sure the venues could ultimately be a liability if things go south. On the flip side it may be the very reason why they're still here in 1,000 years. |
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Post by raiders92 on Dec 10, 2019 12:49:36 GMT
Raiders are the heart of Plymouth BUT the issue is mainly venue how can they be sustainable if they lose the pavilions that's the worry with them!!
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Post by leamrider2 on Dec 10, 2019 14:23:50 GMT
I think Bigz has it spot on. The venues are serious assets. Even in the worst of times they can be used to generate different forms of income, raise loans, etc.
Royals especially but it seems Lions too are built on sand at the moment. There must be question marks about their sustainability. Rocks, Sharks, Raiders etc all have good sized catchment and a history of surviving. Wolves would appear to be dependent on the university.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 15:05:04 GMT
I think in the next five years 3-4 of these teams could potentially not be around in the same capacity as they are now, whether that be through moving elsewhere and rebranding, dropping to the NBL or disappearing for good.
It really depends on the circumstances though too. Like, for example if the league became a bit of a joke due to loads of teams dropping out, I could see some higher up on the list withdrawing as well due to the league going on the wrong direction and the money-pit being too considerable.
Based purely off their own merits and current direction though...
1. Royals
2. Giants
3. Lions
4. Scorchers
5. Phoenix
6. Raiders
7. Wolves
8. Rocks
9. Riders
10. Flyers
11. Sharks
12. Eagles
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 10, 2019 15:16:34 GMT
Withdrawing and going where though? There will always be a top tier of british basketball whether its as it is now or not. The likes of Leicester and Eagles with good fanbases, sponsorships and now arenas they can rent to people if needs be are as solid as it gets.
Interested why you think Flyers and Sharks are above Riders? Not saying its right or wrong but its certainly an interesting one!
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Post by connors on Dec 10, 2019 15:20:39 GMT
Interesting question and I think it only highlights the very transient nature of basketball in the UK overall. Even at local level there are so many teams that come and go, so few players that it only takes a handful to not want to play and its all over.
I cannot be bothered to Google it but how many of the BBL clubs have been around over 10 years in their current formation?
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Post by benji on Dec 10, 2019 15:25:49 GMT
I cannot be bothered to Google it but how many of the BBL clubs have been around over 10 years in their current formation? Good question! I think it's the bottom half of Bigz' list, 7-12. Which I guess is the point, the ones around in their current former for the least time are seen as the most in danger. Edit - maybe 6-12 actually. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Dec 10, 2019 15:30:46 GMT
Interesting question and I think it only highlights the very transient nature of basketball in the UK overall. Even at local level there are so many teams that come and go, so few players that it only takes a handful to not want to play and its all over. I cannot be bothered to Google it but how many of the BBL clubs have been around over 10 years in their current formation? Plymouth, Worcester, Leicester, Newcastle, Sheffield if I'm not mistaken.
Cheshire were the Cheshire Jets, Surrey Scorchers were the Surrey (or even Guildford?) Heat, Lions were in MK, Glasgow were the Scottish Rocks (are we splitting hairs here?).
Bristol/Giants/Royals weren't involved, although Flyers may have been in NBL?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 15:33:44 GMT
Interesting question and I think it only highlights the very transient nature of basketball in the UK overall. Even at local level there are so many teams that come and go, so few players that it only takes a handful to not want to play and its all over. I cannot be bothered to Google it but how many of the BBL clubs have been around over 10 years in their current formation? Plymouth, Worcester, Leicester, Newcastle, Sheffield if I'm not mistaken.
Cheshire were the Cheshire Jets, Surrey Scorchers were the Surrey (or even Guildford?) Heat, Lions were in MK, Glasgow were the Scottish Rocks (are we splitting hairs here?).
Bristol/Giants/Royals weren't involved, although Flyers may have been in NBL?
Were they bombers then? |
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Post by LTFan on Dec 10, 2019 16:23:05 GMT
Just looking at London, it’s difficult to bet against Royals being the next team to exit the BBL one way or another. I’d like to think Lions have a bit more longevity than some are suggesting, the franchise has been through a lot (don’t mention the shopping centre) and is still here. I do suspect their days at the Copper Box are numbered though. They’ll probably see out their 10 year deal and then find a more suitable venue, which could well be a return to Crystal Palace Nations Sports Centre by that time.
A slight variant on the original question would change perspective entirely in my opinion… Of the places currently home to a BBL team, which will maintain a BBL franchise the longest? If I were to answer that I’d put London at the top of the list (not necessarily Royals or Lions though).
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erd87
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Post by erd87 on Dec 10, 2019 17:43:58 GMT
It's an interesting if slightly depressing topic to discuss. Having lived in Newcastle for ten years having come here as a student and a as huge fan of basketball (NBA bubble) since childhood. It took me a while to be persuaded to go to an Eagles game (NBA snob who thought I knew best) but as soon as I attended a game I was hooked. Having been to numerous NBA arenas I loved the immediacy of being so close to what's going on out on the court.
Just attending the odd Eagles game each season I just presumed that all clubs were like this and it took me a while to realise that this was not the case. I think the big lesson that other BBL and potential BBL teams need to learn is that it is best to take a slow considered approach to building a club rather than just chucking a load of money at it. All the clubs that have been listed as sustainable above are clubs who have taken time to make sure the club is built from the bottom up rather than the opposite.
Although having a competitive team is one ingredient for a successful team I think the much more important factor is building up a fanbase of the sport first. I have a 5 year old son who has been in the youth coaching set up at one of the Eagles affiliated youth teams and have seen first hand the excellent job that is being done getting kids involved with this sport we all love at a young age. This is what all clubs should be about for me, as this is what makes me most proud to support the Eagles over what goes on on court.
It's quite sad to see the circumstances some clubs are in at the moment. I would much prefer to see a really competitive league. The past two seasons have probably been my most fun watching the Eagles as you turn up not knowing if a win is on the cards or not, I would hate to see that change.
Sorry for the long rambling post, I just think the point needs to be made that there are certain teams (not just Eagles) who have set the blueprint for what works and what doesn't. It might be a slow burner, but is worth it in the end.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Dec 10, 2019 19:01:06 GMT
Riders will last plenty more years.
Not necessarily as strong and as stable as they are now of course
We need to enjoy being a top team
You never know what's around the corner
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 19:09:16 GMT
Interesting question and I think it only highlights the very transient nature of basketball in the UK overall. Even at local level there are so many teams that come and go, so few players that it only takes a handful to not want to play and its all over. I cannot be bothered to Google it but how many of the BBL clubs have been around over 10 years in their current formation? Plymouth, Worcester, Leicester, Newcastle, Sheffield if I'm not mistaken.
Cheshire were the Cheshire Jets, Surrey Scorchers were the Surrey (or even Guildford?) Heat, Lions were in MK, Glasgow were the Scottish Rocks (are we splitting hairs here?).
Bristol/Giants/Royals weren't involved, although Flyers may have been in NBL?
I'd count Surrey and Cheshire as being effectively the same clubs, they have unbroken membership - even if there was the crazy mid-season name/ownership change for the latter. Rocks and Lions may have moved cities, but - again - they have unbroken membership and when they moved they retained the same ownership. Bristol are 13 years old, they've played at the same and have been Flyers the entre time. AFAIK, Bombers were a different club |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 19:18:39 GMT
Great conversation here. With the longevity of teams I'd agree fully with bigz but would say the top 5/6 I cant see disappearing.
2nd question it's hard to say anyone other than Leicester will last the longest when they're the oldest and were not successful the whole time.
3rd question for you.
What UK cities should be able to support a bbl franchise, regardless of what's come before and what's there now.
I'd say
Liverpool
Birmingham
Leeds
Edinburgh
Cardiff
Swansea
Cornwall (I know it's a county)
I could go on but I'm just naming cities after that
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Post by interestedridersfan on Dec 10, 2019 19:33:45 GMT
Great conversation here. With the longevity of teams I'd agree fully with bigz but would say the top 5/6 I cant see disappearing. 2nd question it's hard to say anyone other than Leicester will last the longest when they're the oldest and were not successful the whole time. 3rd question for you. What UK cities should be able to support a bbl franchise, regardless of what's come before and what's there now. I'd say Liverpool Birmingham Leeds Edinburgh Cardiff Swansea Cornwall (I know it's a county) I could go on but I'm just naming cities after that Nottingham Belfast |
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Post by reallyoldfeenixfan on Dec 10, 2019 20:37:14 GMT
Belfast? Some teams dot like going up to Scotland, let alone over the water.
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Post by stevetino on Dec 10, 2019 21:25:32 GMT
Riders will last plenty more years. Not necessarily as strong and as stable as they are now of course We need to enjoy being a top team You never know what's around the corner Is Theresa May involved at Riders INF? |
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Post by stevetino on Dec 10, 2019 21:27:26 GMT
Great conversation here. With the longevity of teams I'd agree fully with bigz but would say the top 5/6 I cant see disappearing. 2nd question it's hard to say anyone other than Leicester will last the longest when they're the oldest and were not successful the whole time. 3rd question for you. What UK cities should be able to support a bbl franchise, regardless of what's come before and what's there now. I'd say Liverpool Birmingham Leeds Edinburgh Cardiff Swansea Cornwall (I know it's a county) I could go on but I'm just naming cities after that Nottingham Belfast Surely Liverpool & Birmingham should have BBL SIDES, it’s been done before in both cities |
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Post by youngrocks on Dec 10, 2019 21:52:08 GMT
Rocks are the exact same team from when they were scottish rocks. Initially it was through sponsorship we became glasgow. Rocks have been in this form since 2002 when they moved from edinburgh.
Professional sport in the UK is a crowded market and becoming more and more so. You just have to look at the number of football clubs going bust and disappearing. I look at the bbl this season and itd the first time in a long time I am concerned. Arguably all teams have a lesser on court product this season and in my opinion the leagues presence is even lower off court. We would all like the league to grow and normally I am MR positive but we potentially have 2 london teams struggling (the chat of a merger during the off season may have been beneficial) to pay their debts. No pay tv deal/ new technology (is it a cheaper product) that is at best average. No league sponsor and having to rely on a guy who yeah is a quality basketball player but spent the summer on ITV as a contestant on love island??
Raiders like rocks have new owners both clubs seem to be stuck in no mans land. Sheffield maybe a bit dated and in need of freshening up with eagles and riders having set the standard the last 5-10 seasons? Surrey seem to be at a more even keel along with nix but I always just wander when bristol sports will get bored and move on. I hope I am really wrong with that statement.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Dec 10, 2019 22:15:38 GMT
Belfast? Some teams dot like going up to Scotland, let alone over the water. Great fanbase over there for sport. They do great in the ice hockey and bring plenty of fans over for away games when it matters It's a city that can support sports teams for sure |
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