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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 11:48:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 11:56:08 GMT
If there ever is a new team in Brum, then they must start at the bottom and work their way up to BBL standard.
I'd hate to see a Knights situation arise again.
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Post by bullets92 on Nov 23, 2020 11:56:13 GMT
I nearly let out a little cry this morning. Not sure on the capacity yet (I’m still trying to find out.....it doesn’t look anywhere near big enough in the images) but it gives us the basis to start something.
And by that I mean to build a fan base, sponsors and continue the brilliant work the COB Rockets club already do in the community. It’s a travesty we don’t even have a Div 1 club on either the men’s or women’s side (let’s face it, can we really count Div 2 either?)
I’m bloody sick of being a neutral.
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 23, 2020 13:36:40 GMT
What is the BBL's standard for a venue? Are there cases of teams not being admitted to the BBL because their venue failed to meet the required minimum standard? Is that why there isn't a Birmingham team in the BBL? Why isn't there a Birmingham Team in NBL1? Does that also have a venue minimum standard? Is that the same as the BBL standard? I know the French Pro A and the German BBL have a minimum standard of 3000 seat capacity. |
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Post by Solly on Nov 23, 2020 14:35:45 GMT
Good news for City of Birmingham Rockets, but a return for BBL basketball in Birmingham can only be done if it's done right. The Knights (and the later days of the Bullets) were an embarrassment and will have severely muddied the waters in terms of support from sponsors/fans. And any Birmingham club always seems to eventually find itself playing not in Birmingham but in Chelmsley Wood (Solihull). And the last time I was there, so was the speed bump in the court  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 14:46:15 GMT
What is the BBL's standard for a venue? Are there cases of teams not being admitted to the BBL because their venue failed to meet the required minimum standard? Is that why there isn't a Birmingham team in the BBL? Why isn't there a Birmingham Team in NBL1? Does that also have a venue minimum standard? Is that the same as the BBL standard? I know the French Pro A and the German BBL have a minimum standard of 3000 seat capacity. I seem to recall a team wanting to step up to the BBL but were told no because their venue wasn't suitable, I'm probably wrong on that. |
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Post by LTFan on Nov 23, 2020 14:51:25 GMT
What is the BBL's standard for a venue? Are there cases of teams not being admitted to the BBL because their venue failed to meet the required minimum standard? Is that why there isn't a Birmingham team in the BBL? Why isn't there a Birmingham Team in NBL1? Does that also have a venue minimum standard? Is that the same as the BBL standard? I know the French Pro A and the German BBL have a minimum standard of 3000 seat capacity. I seem to recall a team wanting to step up to the BBL but were told no because their venue wasn't suitable, I'm probably wrong on that. Reading Rockets? Of course if you do find yourself in that position you could always do what Bristol did and say you have plans to build an arena that is of BBL regulation within the next few to 20 years.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 15:53:37 GMT
COB should have all the infrastructure they have nba legend backing them really!
Yeah reading were denied on arena many times
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 16:30:20 GMT
I seem to recall a team wanting to step up to the BBL but were told no because their venue wasn't suitable, I'm probably wrong on that. Reading Rockets? Of course if you do find yourself in that position you could always do what Bristol did and say you have plans to build an arena that is of BBL regulation within the next few to 20 years. So I wasn't dreaming then, yeah Reading Rockets rings a bell. I wish to see more teams in the league, perhaps more with a link to a famous nearby neighbour in a more high profile sport. |
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Post by LTFan on Nov 23, 2020 16:40:20 GMT
Reading Rockets? Of course if you do find yourself in that position you could always do what Bristol did and say you have plans to build an arena that is of BBL regulation within the next few to 20 years. So I wasn't dreaming then, yeah Reading Rockets rings a bell. I wish to see more teams in the league, perhaps more with a link to a famous nearby neighbour in a more high profile sport.I think that was the model of the illusive Premier League Basketball wasn't it? Not saying it's a bad one though. |
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 23, 2020 17:18:43 GMT
Thanks. That makes sense. Bristol have a rich backer and plans for a big arena so that's why they're allowed in. I can't help thinking the BBL has missed out by not admitting Reading Rockets. The twelfth BBL franchise should be a South East team in my opinion. And now London Irish has left Reading there is even more potential for a Reading team to attract sports fans.
Based on the other BBL arenas I would say the BBL standard is possibly 1000 seats. Ideally 2000 seats would be a good standard. Manchester Giants and Worcester Wolves are in 2000 seater arenas and they look really nice, although I've never been. But obviously we're not ready for such a high standard yet.
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Post by bullets92 on Nov 23, 2020 18:26:32 GMT
The arena issue in Birmingham simply is there either isn’t any good enough (capacity wise, location, seating issues etc) or they’re too big and expensive - the NIA and NEC come to mind.
From what I’m hearing the plan here is to aim for Div 1 with this facility. After that? Who knows? COB already have a lot of things in place that previous BBL failings at Knights and Panthers didn’t have in the BBL.
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Post by drivethebody on Nov 23, 2020 19:10:13 GMT
If there ever is a new team in Brum, then they must start at the bottom and work their way up to BBL standard. I'd hate to see a Knights situation arise again. Why though? This is a franchise based league. Not one with decades of promotion or relegation like say the football Pyramid. Any new club with a half decent venue and admin fee can jump on board. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 19:20:58 GMT
Did you see what happened to the Knights?
They came in totally unprepared and went the same way as Mersey did the season before, winless and out of the league
Durham Wildcats at least established themselves starting in Division 3 North back in 05/06, in 09/10 they were in Division 2 and then Division 1 in 10/11 then made the step up to BBL for 11/12.
It helps to start from the bottom and working your way up.
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Post by drivethebody on Nov 23, 2020 19:35:14 GMT
Did you see what happened to the Knights? They came in totally unprepared and went the same way as Mersey did the season before, winless and out of the league Durham Wildcats at least established themselves starting in Division 3 North back in 05/06, in 09/10 they were in Division 2 and then Division 1 in 10/11 then made the step up to BBL for 11/12. It helps to start from the bottom and working your way up. True and of course I saw only too close hand what happened to London City Royals. The BBL though I’m sure you will agree would snap the hands off anyone with the required fee. |
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Post by ko25 on Nov 23, 2020 20:04:04 GMT
Did you see what happened to the Knights? They came in totally unprepared and went the same way as Mersey did the season before, winless and out of the league Durham Wildcats at least established themselves starting in Division 3 North back in 05/06, in 09/10 they were in Division 2 and then Division 1 in 10/11 then made the step up to BBL for 11/12. It helps to start from the bottom and working your way up. True and of course I saw only too close hand what happened to London City Royals. The BBL though I’m sure you will agree would snap the hands off anyone with the required fee. I think one of the main issues with brand new teams to the league other than established D1 teams is that they've not managed to develop a sustained fan base. |
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Post by hersey427 on Nov 23, 2020 21:38:29 GMT
Thanks. That makes sense. Bristol have a rich backer and plans for a big arena so that's why they're allowed in. I can't help thinking the BBL has missed out by not admitting Reading Rockets. The twelfth BBL franchise should be a South East team in my opinion. And now London Irish has left Reading there is even more potential for a Reading team to attract sports fans. Based on the other BBL arenas I would say the BBL standard is possibly 1000 seats. Ideally 2000 seats would be a good standard. Manchester Giants and Worcester Wolves are in 2000 seater arenas and they look really nice, although I've never been. But obviously we're not ready for such a high standard yet. Clearly you haven't been to rivermead. It's tired, much of the seating is gone and if they do give it a makeover they're only installing 300 seats. The minimum for a new BBL venue is 2000. |
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 23, 2020 23:01:00 GMT
Thanks. That makes sense. Bristol have a rich backer and plans for a big arena so that's why they're allowed in. I can't help thinking the BBL has missed out by not admitting Reading Rockets. The twelfth BBL franchise should be a South East team in my opinion. And now London Irish has left Reading there is even more potential for a Reading team to attract sports fans. Based on the other BBL arenas I would say the BBL standard is possibly 1000 seats. Ideally 2000 seats would be a good standard. Manchester Giants and Worcester Wolves are in 2000 seater arenas and they look really nice, although I've never been. But obviously we're not ready for such a high standard yet. Clearly you haven't been to rivermead. It's tired, much of the seating is gone and if they do give it a makeover they're only installing 300 seats. The minimum for a new BBL venue is 2000. Interesting. So there is a standard, and it is what I would put it at, but it's not enforced. |
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Post by samgray on Nov 23, 2020 23:10:03 GMT
Honestly think the idea that the idea that D4 to BBL is the best and only way to do it is baffling. If Hakeem decided he fancied going all in and funding a bbl team in Birmingham it would be mental to make them work their way up.
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Post by faz on Nov 24, 2020 0:59:59 GMT
Thanks. That makes sense. Bristol have a rich backer and plans for a big arena so that's why they're allowed in. I can't help thinking the BBL has missed out by not admitting Reading Rockets. The twelfth BBL franchise should be a South East team in my opinion. And now London Irish has left Reading there is even more potential for a Reading team to attract sports fans. Based on the other BBL arenas I would say the BBL standard is possibly 1000 seats. Ideally 2000 seats would be a good standard. Manchester Giants and Worcester Wolves are in 2000 seater arenas and they look really nice, although I've never been. But obviously we're not ready for such a high standard yet. Clearly you haven't been to rivermead. It's tired, much of the seating is gone and if they do give it a makeover they're only installing 300 seats. The minimum for a new BBL venue is 2000. Which makes it nigh on impossible for a new franchise Jets I believe were given a set period to improve their facility but it does seem very hap hazard |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 8:43:23 GMT
Honestly think the idea that the idea that D4 to BBL is the best and only way to do it is baffling. If Hakeem decided he fancied going all in and funding a bbl team in Birmingham it would be mental to make them work their way up. Well if we start letting teams straight into the BBL you'll always run the risk of it failing, by starting from scratch at the bottom they can build their team gradually over many years. If they make it to Division 1 and do well consistently then yes, you could make a case that they'd be a perfect fit for the BBL. I just don't see why you'd want a situation where a team lasts a season and that's it, it's extremely dangerous and would be detrimental to the league. Any club wishing to join the BBL must have a solid financial plan as well, so that we can avoid situations like the Knights and Royals. |
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 24, 2020 9:04:28 GMT
Honestly think the idea that the idea that D4 to BBL is the best and only way to do it is baffling. If Hakeem decided he fancied going all in and funding a bbl team in Birmingham it would be mental to make them work their way up. Well if we start letting teams straight into the BBL you'll always run the risk of it failing, by starting from scratch at the bottom they can build their team gradually over many years. If they make it to Division 1 and do well consistently then yes, you could make a case that they'd be a perfect fit for the BBL. I just don't see why you'd want a situation where a team lasts a season and that's it, it's extremely dangerous and would be detrimental to the league. Any club wishing to join the BBL must have a solid financial plan as well, so that we can avoid situations like the Knights and Royals. Didn't Leeds move up through the divisions, then disappear overnight? |
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Post by number23 on Nov 24, 2020 9:21:34 GMT
I don’t think Leeds was quite overnight, if I remember correctly? Didn’t they lose a major partner in the local Uni just as they made the leap to BBL, and still persist for a few years - albeit with visibly diminishing returns?
Very interested in a long-overdue return of BBL basketball to Birmingham. The improved venue does look like a big step, but the mockups suggest to me it’s more likely to be a standard closer to Solent’s D1 venue than something BBL ready. But still, anything that gets the city closer to even a D1 presence is progress.
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 24, 2020 10:18:28 GMT
I don’t think Leeds was quite overnight, if I remember correctly? Didn’t they lose a major partner in the local Uni just as they made the leap to BBL, and still persist for a few years - albeit with visibly diminishing returns? Very interested in a long-overdue return of BBL basketball to Birmingham. The improved venue does look like a big step, but the mockups suggest to me it’s more likely to be a standard closer to Solent’s D1 venue than something BBL ready. But still, anything that gets the city closer to even a D1 presence is progress. If COB make it to the top of D1 and build a fanbase to sell out this venue most games, I wonder if they could be admitted to the BBL if they host some of the big televised games at the NIA. That is not dissimilar to what Glasgow Rocks do, moving between the sports hall and the main arena. |
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Post by dandayr on Nov 24, 2020 12:14:19 GMT
Honestly think the idea that the idea that D4 to BBL is the best and only way to do it is baffling. If Hakeem decided he fancied going all in and funding a bbl team in Birmingham it would be mental to make them work their way up. Well if we start letting teams straight into the BBL you'll always run the risk of it failing, by starting from scratch at the bottom they can build their team gradually over many years. If they make it to Division 1 and do well consistently then yes, you could make a case that they'd be a perfect fit for the BBL. I just don't see why you'd want a situation where a team lasts a season and that's it, it's extremely dangerous and would be detrimental to the league. Any club wishing to join the BBL must have a solid financial plan as well, so that we can avoid situations like the Knights and Royals. but didn't the Rocks just go straight in  you could even be pedantic and argue they did it twice  - first time being the Edinburgh Rocks out of Meadowbank and 2nd time being the Scottish Rocks out of Braehead while it was the same franchise - from a baseline viewpoint neither incarnation grew out an existing club or grew gradually up the ranks (not really got the equiv path anyway) to then join BBL. Sure may have been some fans who made the move to Braehead - but it was a rebuild in the local communities to build a new fanbase. 55miles between the two arenas did not make it a convenient switch for fans The three venues they have used in the West all being short distance from each other relative to the east to west switch meant those moves did not need to rebuild the fan base in the same way and it was more rebrand going from Scottish to Glasgow Rocks. I dont see any reason not to let a team go straight in with the correct infrastructure behind it and a business plan that can support a period of building a local fanbase through engagement with both the local basketball community and the wider community of the area |
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