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Post by gloryeagle on Feb 18, 2021 17:15:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 17:51:26 GMT
An arena built on a flood plain What could go wrong?
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Post by dandayr on Feb 18, 2021 18:42:44 GMT
is Gloucester not close enough to Bristol that the fan base catchment for BBL sides would have a huge overlap?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 20:50:46 GMT
is Gloucester not close enough to Bristol that the fan base catchment for BBL sides would have a huge overlap? Have far spread out are those 300 odd fans?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 21:13:50 GMT
Fair play, I hope it works for them, it'll be a long road to the BBL from the 4th Tier but at least they don't lack ambition.
BBL should look to expand once the pandemic is out the way, Worthing would be worthy of a spot but they'd have to want to come up, same with Solent
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Post by allstring on Feb 18, 2021 23:30:37 GMT
Is there currently a team in the NBL who are realistically targeting the BBL AND have the infrastructure (primarily suitable venue)? Then throw in the franchise model and catchment area limitations.
Whilst it may feel right for a team to have to climb the ladder, I'd argue that only works if there is a flow from the NBL to the BBL.
What it really needs is a BBL2 with promotion/relegation. A new franchise either enters the bottom of the NBL pyramid or into BBL2. Any NBL team should be able to apply to BBL2, but I'd ensure the criteria for acceptance was tough (but reasonable) otherwise it really encourages unprepared teams to make an unreasonable jump believing they didn't have to initially compete against the powerhouse organisations. The criteria should rightly favour solid organisations like Reading or Solent, but may still be rejected due to their venues. It should also encourage locations that could support a national level team to start in BBL 2 (an appropriate level) rather than regional NBL 4 (is that the lowest now, or is it NBL 3?) which would be inappropriate.
Apart from anything else, the inclusion of a BBL would be fun. There would be a fascinating BBL1 relegation battle, but the relegated team(s) wouldn't be "ruined" by the demotion, they'd still be in a competitive and commercially viable environment in BBL 2
I'd also like the idea of two up/two down; one automatic each way. The remaining promotion/relegation spot being decided by play-offs. Either within division; BBL2 2nd bottom v 3rd bottom and BBL2 2nd v 3rd. Or cross division play-offs. The latter should only be considered if reasonable equality across divisions (e.g. work permits) and salary caps. Otherwise it unfairly favours the BBL1 teams who have built teams under different rules.
To ensure the BBL integrity though, any team accepted to BBL2 must do on the basis they can compete in BBL1, which is where venues for example have to be in the entrance criteria. A team turning down promotion to BBL1 because they aren't ready just invalidates the entire structure.
So a team like Gloucester; once their arena is available, they should certainly be able to make a reasonable application to BBL2. Whilst we are a long way off for many reasons, a steady ongoing flow of new teams into BBL2 isn't an issue. Initially larger divisions is fine, and in some future utopia if that required a third division then great.
The harsh current reality is how many teams exist that could form the initial BBL2 who are venue and commercial ready to operate in BBL1. I don't think that requires a set of fingers to count. So that suggests compromise. NBL1 in particular consists of many well run organisations who could operate under the BBL2 banner. I think in the early days promotion would need to be determined on both the club accepting and the BBL deeming them suitable and ready. The potential relegated club would have no say, but the concern is that club could be put at risk with relegation to what will likely be a much inferior (commercially and operationally) division in the early years.
Anyone no how likely a BBL2 is and what are the main stumbling blocks as to why there has been very little traction on the idea over the years?
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Post by lexumcomp on Feb 19, 2021 9:49:49 GMT
Probably because BBL1 has barely proved to be sustainable? BBL2 would be massively jumping the gun. Let's get the BBL where it needs to be first, which is probably another 5 years of improving and developing at its current rate (which has been good).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 9:55:42 GMT
I've rambled about it before, probably more than once. The big sticking point IMO is that it's hard to see the BBL clubs voting for relegation. Turkey don't vote for Christmas, although they don't get a choice. It took massive pressure for the Football League to agree to relegation (and League 2 still sends down less than any other division) but there's no sign that BE or BBF will get involved. BBL 2 would still be an improvement if it freed them for BE control but I'm not sure that alone is enough of a reason for change
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 10:05:23 GMT
is Gloucester not close enough to Bristol that the fan base catchment for BBL sides would have a huge overlap? If the BBL wants to expand, there's going to be overlap. I doubt many fans from Gloucester travel to Bristol, a new club would have to tap into local people who've not watched the sport before. A big local rivalry would make up for anyone who changed allegiances and - if we believe the hype - Flyers are turning people away. I did admire Paul Blake - who was then BBL chairman - welcoming Durham to the BBL rather than moaning about a new club on his doorstep. Shall we have a sweep on whether Gloucester's new arena is built before Bristol's
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Post by dandayr on Feb 20, 2021 13:25:20 GMT
checked the maps - and yep can see not really an overlap (30 odd miles is a decent gap, when our hockey team got shifted that far we went from every home game attendance to twice a season treat). Key is building a local fan base as you say.
like the comments again about a bbl2 as a path to separate the pro part of the sport from the amateur part of it - and a potential way to help bridge the introduction of new pro clubs to the BBL structure.
Harping back to other sport again though, think it would only work if all NDL clubs buy in that can only be pro (or semi-pro) in the BBL1/2 structure and dont go like hockey did where clubs would jump from eihl then go back to other leagues as they have a fractured model and pro/semi-pro under multiple governing bodies. You dont want most deciding BBL1/2 is place to go but a few stay back in NDL and then suddenly BE run a semi-pro league and BBL run one as well.
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milehigh
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Post by milehigh on Feb 20, 2021 17:09:47 GMT
Gloucester will also overlap with the southern part of Worcesters catchment area. It is good to see clubs and owners have ambitious plans, they have totally redeveloped the site for a new football stadium, it would be great if they could deliver an arena for basketball too.
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Post by borthwick on Feb 20, 2021 18:06:06 GMT
It’s a very long journey from D4 to the BBL player wise, organisation wise, sponsorship wise, crowd wise, very which way. Good luck but not a real hot bed of basketball is it?
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milehigh
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Post by milehigh on Feb 20, 2021 18:45:02 GMT
Yes, it will be a long hard road, but with the correct management, recruitment, coaching and investment it is possible. If they reach the BBL, or even NBL D1 they will be a much more sustainable organsation than the last two teams that entered the BBL, and departed rapidly leaving massive debts.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 19:16:35 GMT
Harping back to other sport again though, think it would only work if all NDL clubs buy in that can only be pro (or semi-pro) in the BBL1/2 structure and dont go like hockey did where clubs would jump from eihl then go back to other leagues as they have a fractured model and pro/semi-pro under multiple governing bodies. You dont want most deciding BBL1/2 is place to go but a few stay back in NDL and then suddenly BE run a semi-pro league and BBL run one as well. Not sure why you keep calling it the NDL, but i wouldn't worry about the bigger teams staying in D1 - they'd be off in a shot. The key would be to make sure that teams who aren't semi-pro didn't jump on the bandwagon. I wonder if BE would even bother running a national top flight bearing in mind they decided to ruin D2 by regionalising it. i don't think life in D3 or D2 is any preparation for running a BBL club. It can help build a fanbase (although you'd need to be careful about how steadily you increase ticket prices) and work can be started on a decent community programme but until you've dealt with recruiting, housing, getting visas etc for Americans you really have no idea of the lunacy it involves.
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