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Post by Fouled Out on Jan 9, 2017 13:50:11 GMT
The standard of refereeing is a common theme on game threads here, and more often that not, posters reference the relevant foul count when analysing games. I don't understand how a large difference between two teams' foul counts is indicative of poor reffing, referees' favouritism or other cynical complaints, but continually the foul count is brought up as evidence to support these type of accusations. Seems to me that a difference in foul count could be caused by a large number of different reasons: - A better/more skilful team that collectively draws more fouls
- A team that defends more aggressively than the other team
- A team with a deeper bench, that can afford to commit a greater number of fouls
- A coach with a particular strategy that includes fouling to break up the opposition's offensive sets, or to put a player off his rhythm
- A team who relies on having the ball in the hands of 1 player (or more) a disproportionately large amount of the time, and that player is particularly good at drawing fouls, or particularly quick/skilful/deceptive and so liable to be fouled more often than others
- A team that is better than the other on the offensive boards, and so has more possessions and takes more shots during the game (and so is more likely to be fouled)
- A good defensive team, that creates turnovers or mistakes from the opposition, such that fewer shots are ultimately attempted (a lot of fouls are committed in the act of shooting)
- A team that shoots a high number of 3s or outside shots, which are typically less likely to draw fouls then those under the basket
- A team with less ability, that depends on fouling to frustrate its opposition
So what is it that I'm missing?
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Post by Facts on Jan 9, 2017 14:08:07 GMT
Twas ever thus. There is, was and always will be, at most games a red-faced supporter screaming 'look at the foul count' as if it is supposed to be even.
You're right that lobsided foul counts are more often than not a result of tactics than anything else, but when you're team is on the wrong end of it, it's far easier to scream at the ref than to say 'you know what, the fact they're sitting in a zone and we're jacking up shots, whilst we're in a man and they're attacking the basket with faster, more agile players and our help defence is very slow on rotation which are the reasons the foul count is so unbalanced at the moment, I'm sure if the teams approached things in different ways it might even up a bit'....it also takes away some of the fun of being a supporter. Screaming at the refs is one of the reasons people like to go to sports.
The one thing I would say is having a deeper bench doesn't mean you should commit more fouls (although you could), less fatigue should mean less mental lapses and fewer fouls I'd say. I don't agree with all your points, but the sentiment is fair enough
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Post by baldeagle on Jan 9, 2017 16:04:46 GMT
FO, I think the only one you were missing is "a team of Lithuanian heavies". .....
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2NFR
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Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by 2NFR on Jan 9, 2017 16:37:33 GMT
What pee's off a lot of fans is lack of consistency between the 3 ref's How many times has one ref called a foul or violation at one end of the court, then the same thing happens minutes later at the other end an a different ref doesn't call it. As a fan it can be quite frustrating at times. err !! ... just don't get me started on 'make up' calls.
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Post by isthaturinal on Jan 9, 2017 16:55:50 GMT
What pee's off a lot of fans is lack of consistency between the 3 ref's How many times has one ref called a foul or violation at one end of the court, then the same thing happens minutes later at the other end an a different ref doesn't call it. As a fan it can be quite frustrating at times. err !! ... just don't get me started on 'make up' calls. Make up call, we all know they happen......but it's very hard to prove, as for the supporters that hollows about uneven foul counts, you'll find more often than not that they have no clue what is really going on, We have a few a Riders, if you ask them we don't commit a single foul for the whole game, but if the opposing team sneezed they want unsportsmanlike called, Whilst game have refs you'll always have haters
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Post by Facts on Jan 9, 2017 16:58:07 GMT
Although 2NFR when fans talk about 'consistency' often they mean they want all the calls to consistently go there own way!!! Lets be fair most fans have a visual bias towards their own team, we see fouls for our team far more readily than against us.
I have been at games where I wasn't supporting either team with perfectly knowledgeable and rational people who were supporting one of them. They've gone nuts over what seemed to the neutral eye to be perfectly good calls, I just laughed and said 'that was the right call though, you know that don't you?' But that is part of the game, we all do it to lesser or greater degrees. And not every fan is perfectly knowledgeable and rational!!!
Like I said shouting at the ref is part of sports because we're vested in the outcome, but just because we're doing it doesn't necessarily mean they've made a bad call, just one we didn't like. Sometimes the refs do make bad calls, but far fewer than the average fan would have you believe.
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2NFR
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Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by 2NFR on Jan 9, 2017 17:22:09 GMT
Some fair points above ... as said ... in the heat of the moment we fans can lose it ... err !! ... just a little bit but that's all part and parcel of being a passionate about our team and the sport we love ... Hindsight is a wonderful thing ... TBH ... the ref's just ignore us fans ranting anyway ...
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Post by Guest on Jan 9, 2017 19:01:17 GMT
I don't get upset by many calls at games although the people I sit with usually do. Perhaps it was because I used to referee at a local league level and most of the time the calls they are getting irate about are perfectly good.
Fans who annoy me are those who have never looked at the rules and regulations and still think they know every call in the book. Trust me, you don't.
But the worst fans are those whose players can do no wrong, ever!! Yet when they come back to their old team they are dirtiest players around! hahaha!!!
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2NFR
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Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by 2NFR on Jan 9, 2017 19:39:26 GMT
How very elitist of you 'Them' fans you speak of, may not know the 'book' as well as some, but may have sufficient knowledge to understand, enjoy and show some passion for the sport. 'Them' fans (and sponsors) also make up the majority of the crowd. They spend their money, without which most clubs wouldn't exist and would probably still be playing in school halls with no crowd atmosphere ... err!! ... well ... apart from a few elites analyzing every move ... Hmmm !! Just playing Devils advocate
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