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Post by baldeagle on Sept 4, 2019 8:34:27 GMT
I’m the Dave mentioned above You ask am I wrong.? 100 per cent categorically yes Perhaps now you can stop opining on something you have absolutely no knowledge of? For your own sake? Just trying to work out which is funnier and more arrogant - Rees Mogg stretching himself out on the front bench in the Commons last night or INF telling Dave what he says Dave thinks! Time to stop digging?
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 8:48:34 GMT
I’m the Dave mentioned above You ask am I wrong.? 100 per cent categorically yes Perhaps now you can stop opining on something you have absolutely no knowledge of? For your own sake? Just trying to work out which is funnier and more arrogant - Rees Mogg stretching himself out on the front bench in the Commons last night or INF telling Dave what he says Dave thinks! Time to stop digging? ? Dave can say and think what he likes. It's a sports forum. I've given him the chance to have the final word on Fab. It's upto him whether he sets the record straight. I'm sure he can say something that ticks all the boxes off nicely and we can all move on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 8:57:29 GMT
Just trying to work out which is funnier and more arrogant - Rees Mogg stretching himself out on the front bench in the Commons last night or INF telling Dave what he says Dave thinks! Time to stop digging? ? Dave can say and think what he likes. It's a sports forum. I've given him the chance to have the final word on Fab. It's upto him whether he sets the record straight. I'm sure he can say something that ticks all the boxes off nicely and we can all move on. Why do you think its a good move for the Eagle that Fab has left?
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 9:12:11 GMT
? Dave can say and think what he likes. It's a sports forum. I've given him the chance to have the final word on Fab. It's upto him whether he sets the record straight. I'm sure he can say something that ticks all the boxes off nicely and we can all move on. Why do you think its a good move for the Eagle that Fab has left? Without wishing to sound negative and upset anyone else. Instead being realistic: Because he's going to be one of the highest paid people in BBL. Plus a penthouse apartment (and car) I imagine. He can be replaced by his assistant coach (should they wish) on a fraction of his wages. He was paid as a player coach and He hasn't pulled up any trees for at least three years either as a coach or a player and is clearly at the end of his playing days. If anything eagles have gone backwards whilst others have gone forwards in recent years. All fair comment I think. Fab himself would not be happy with what happened on court with Eagles in recent years. So with the salary and the rest of his package and a spare space on the playing squad Eagles could sign a real statement player now to be a starter on the squad under the assistant coach or a new coach on way less salary than Fab. Where they lose Fab - they gain elsewhere. (I will also remind everyone that Fab always said when he stopped playing he didn't want to become a coach). Maybe the MBA rumours may have some legs after all. Simple question what team wins the most matches? Existing squad with Fab as the final signing and Fab coaching it ? Existing squad with MBA as the last signing and a less experienced coach - coaching it? It's a business and sports decision at the same time 3 years from now with no trophies and Nick Nurse no longer in a job. What would the options be for all concerned? We've said on here before Eagles could never sack Fab. This works for lots of reasons. Fresh start. New ideas. Great opportunity for Fab. Where else can he achieve the package he earns at Eagles and what else could he do?
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 9:19:03 GMT
Last season with a rookie coach with next to no experience of senior coaching Royals won a trophy and got to playoff final
Season before with a rookie coach with next to no experience Cheshire won a trophy
Last three seasons with a budget way in excess of vast majority of other clubs and a very experienced coach Eagles won nothing and didn't even come close to winning anything being realistic
There's lots of ways to skin a cat
And Eagles have a budget to spend on coaching and on players.
This is just sport and business to me?
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mac
Bench Player
Posts: 174
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Post by mac on Sept 4, 2019 9:57:10 GMT
aaagghh! I come back on to comment on Fab's promotion only to find IRF taking over another thread with his speculations. Fab is one of the most selfless men I have ever met. Paul Blake one of the most honorable. Have you considered the possibility that Fab's friends might just be concerned that his selfless loyalty could damage his career. There are always differnt ways to interpret a news report but when one of the men involved voluntarily tells you that you are wrong and you refuse to accept that, well that shows a special kind of arrogance. We have known this was going to happen eventually. Fab's achievements have always meant he would move on to bigger and better things. Yes, I am sad that he is going but delighted that he will now get fully involved on the biggest basketball stage there is.
quote, "I've given him the chance to have the final word on Fab". Breathtaking.
re query on Tony G, he left on good terms. Birmingham offered European basketball which did not work out for him. Eagles took a chance on Fab and the rest as they say, is history.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 10:00:14 GMT
aaagghh! I come back on to comment on Fab's promotion only to find IRF taking over another thread with his speculations. Fab is one of the most selfless men I have ever met. Paul Blake one of the most honorable. Have you considered the possibility that Fab's friends might just be concerned that his selfless loyalty could damage his career. There are always differnt ways to interpret a news report but when one of the men involved voluntarily tells you that you are wrong and you refuse to accept that, well that shows a special kind of arrogance. We have known this was going to happen eventually. Fab's achievements have always meant he would move on to bigger and better things. Yes, I am sad that he is going but delighted that he will now get fully involved on the biggest basketball stage there is. Mac - your way of seeing how those conversations may have happened may be the correct one. It's plausible. And it speculation as well. Doesn't change my overall observation that this appears to suit both Eagles and Fab, And any of you who prefer to think it's all in Fabs favour and eagles had to let him go etc and wished they hadn't. And it doesn't suit them as well. You are all entitled to believe that if you want to. I'm not stopping you. Or trying to shut you down.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 10:01:54 GMT
Dp
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 10:04:26 GMT
Mac - your way of seeing how those conversations may have happened may be the correct one. It's plausible. And it speculation as well. Doesn't change my overall observation that this appears to suit both Eagles and Fab, And any of you who prefer to think it's all in Fabs favour and eagles had to let him go etc and wished they hadn't. You are all entitled to believe that if you want to. I'm not stopping you. And Dave didn't add anything to the debate at all. He preferred to just shut it down. You at least have put another spin on what Fab says on eagle's website for him. And I respect that. Do you expect Dave to come on here and say this suited us as much as it suited Fab? Maybe he will. Thats debate and that's what forums are all about.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 10:08:54 GMT
Seriously any other sports forum and fans would be all over this.
Reading between the lines. You guys have a fairy tale expectation about how sports clubs are run and decisions are made.
Theres a lot of tough decisions happen in sport behind closed doors. Every day in businesses around the UK staff leaving is often good news for the employers (no matter how good they might have been in the past). I speak from experience.
Fab hasn't been forced out IMO. He does appear to have been pointed in the right direction though.
Live with it.
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mac
Bench Player
Posts: 174
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Post by mac on Sept 4, 2019 10:12:58 GMT
That is four consecutive responses in ten minutes, three to yourself. Says it all. I'm out....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 10:20:44 GMT
In view of the fact that the team has been recruited to Fab's style and system of play I would say that this season the team is coached by Ian who else knows the team and system better than the current assistants. If Ian does a good job then the position becomes permanent next year if not then at the end of the season we can look for a new head coach who can select their own team to fit their system. You could also argue: That style and system of play has not been successful (in eagle's terms) for over 3 years now So the alternative is this season is the chance to change the way eagles play They've got a deeper squad already so maybe a new way of playing at same time Yeah, you could argue it. You probably don't need to constantly post it. It's possible that I, too, am a WUM but even I know what to stop. You're absolutely entitled to post what you want but you seem to need to take over every thread and your obsession with Eagles seems to transcend your support for Riders. It's become absolutely tedious.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 10:23:07 GMT
You could also argue: That style and system of play has not been successful (in eagle's terms) for over 3 years now So the alternative is this season is the chance to change the way eagles play They've got a deeper squad already so maybe a new way of playing at same time Yeah, you could argue it. You probably don't need to constantly post it. It's possible that I, too, am a WUM but even I know what to stop. You're absolutely entitled to post what you want but you seem to need to take over every thread and your obsession with Eagles seems to transcend your support for Riders. It's become absolutely tedious. I'm out too. At least half or my posts are when other come on and want to argue the point or attack me. No point me responding to all of them I guess.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 10:36:56 GMT
You can't really moan about people answering your posts, you don't have to (always) answer their answers. You've made it abundantly clear that you feel Eagles have underachieved over the last three years (an argument that is many ways diminishes your own team's achievements - though they also underachieved last season), I don't believe there's a person on here who hasn't read that view. It just doesn't need repeating.
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Post by eaststandeagle on Sept 4, 2019 10:45:38 GMT
Also, at a time when everyone else in the BBL, fans, players, coaches are celebrating his achievements and wishing him well, you are obsessed with pointing out where things have went wrong. And you wonder why people don’t reply or find you arrogant. Thank god your obsession with Fab will stop now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 11:35:58 GMT
Ah, but will it? Raptors will lose 20+ games this year and it'll be Fab's fault
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Post by davef on Sept 4, 2019 11:54:29 GMT
Sadly I dont think it will. To be frank whatever I say this person will profess to know better and will skew whatever is said to address what appears to be a fixation of some sort.
against my better judgement I will respond directly to the issue of the quote that appears to have been twisted beyond all reasonable comprehension by someone who I, too my knowledge, have never met and who certainly has not met Fab.
However I am not going to get into discussions over basketball systems with someone who does not appear to know what a pick and roll is or budgets with someone who has no knowledge of them at all but professes to do so or indeed the history of winning 81 medals and 574 games entirely depending on Charles Smith popping in a few threes. Its all risible, execrable uninformed nonsense and doesn`t warrant a response.
Fab and nick obviously know each other. Last year by invitation he was embedded for a couple of weeks with the team during international breaks and covered summer league. This year again present at summer league. As much as anything this presented a magnificent learning opportunity for him and by extension us as a club. We positively encouraged it. Anything else would be the most self centred betrayal of him imaginable and we dont operate that way (I of course appreciate that your `40 year knowledge of sports organisations` says different - who to believe : hey hum) If he was ever to be offered a job there would be no question of us standing in his way. As an organisation we believe in trying to offer people the opportunity to better themselves, that is the nature of being in a mid level european league.
and eventually he did get offered a job. I`m told that nick would have definitely offered him that job in July (nice working knowledge there of NBA assistant coach hiring practices) and this was all a big plan to get him out the door. By someone who has no idea. Its unadulterated bollocks.
Everyone in Newcastle and basically 99% of the BBL is utterly made up for him. Everyone here is desperately sad to see him go. But we all know that he had to give this a shot.
Life is about personal advancements, it isnt about counting pots or getting one over on someone. Its not all about gaming the system (although politics at the moment may suggest otherwise). There is room for basic decency in professional sports. Please don`t look at our club through the viewing sphere of your own jaundiced glasses.
I`m out.
Hope every has a great season and will see many of you guys around on the circuit. Dave
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retsek
6th Man
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Post by retsek on Sept 4, 2019 12:07:37 GMT
Even I don't think for a solitary minute that Flournoy has been shown the door, encouraged to look elsewhere, or would have ever been put in that situation. Not ever. I do however know that if his pal, the guy who brought him to the bbl, wasn't an NBA coach that he'd be back coaching Newcastle again this year without a hope in hells chance of ever seeing an NBA bench.
You can tout all the BBL success you like, and I will concede there's been record levels of it. But to go straight from the BBL to an NBA assistant without any Euroleague, D league or international coaching experience would be like someone winning 18 consecutive non league football titles, then year 19 getting promoted to an assistant at Man United.
Flournoy has taken the Donewald route, it's not what you know, it's who you know.
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D44
Bench Player
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Post by D44 on Sept 4, 2019 12:13:28 GMT
Great response Dave. I'm sure yourself and Ian will do a great job in the interim and possibly longer term.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Sept 4, 2019 12:46:22 GMT
And as promised I will never mention his name again on here other than to wish him the best of luck
To me it's never personal it's just sport. And I personally don't think you need knowledge of tactics and pick and roll to be able to have an opinion.
It may be harder for others to think of this as not just a sport when they know the individuals involved. And fair play to Dave for replying in depth.
To end my involvement in this thread
Best of luck to Fab in his new career in NBA
And will be very interesting to see what Eagles do next.
Anyway - one good thing has emerged from all of this. I believe I now have an open invitation to stay in the penthouse whenever I'm in the North East
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Post by wildcat on Sept 4, 2019 12:51:54 GMT
Just extraordinary how this is twisted. What an opportunity for Fab and well earned! The fact that he hasn't done the Euroleague route or been a GB coach (why not?) makes it even more remarkable. He's someone with a proven track record who is always there and doesn't shy away from hard work--what an example, and absolutely fabulous for the BBL, who have Nick Nurse as their most famous alum. Maybe it's hard to fathom values of loyalty and hard work, and instead try to reduce things to 'it's who you know and not what you know' and other belittling quotes. Nick Nurse does know him and knows that Fab delivers; he knows what Fab knows is valuable to the NBA; he's got other NBA assistants for other areas of knowledge (Scariolo, for example); the NBA is all about special skills and breaking down areas of expertise knowledge. Nurse knows many coaches and ex-players; interesting that he chose Fab out of all those global options of people 'he knows.' It's a testament to coach Flournoy earning that call up to the NBA. And it's a testament to the Eagles that they encourage him to realize his NBA dream. But rather than celebrate all that, it's just pure spite and small-minded insularity from a couple of people here.
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Post by connors on Sept 4, 2019 13:16:16 GMT
Despite losing players the Raps are the current NBA champions and would not have trouble getting assistant coaches onboard to work with them. I think it speaks volumes for Fab that Nurse still went for him.
I completely agree with Hersey. It is utterly tedious to find almost every post somehow descending into some Eagles v Riders debate! IRF - the forum would be a lot duller without you so don't stop....but maybe find a new drum to bang eh?
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tigger
Bench Player
Posts: 125
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by tigger on Sept 4, 2019 13:20:01 GMT
I’m the Dave mentioned above You ask am I wrong.? 100 per cent categorically yes Perhaps now you can stop opining on something you have absolutely no knowledge of? For your own sake? Just trying to work out which is funnier and more arrogant - Rees Mogg stretching himself out on the front bench in the Commons last night or INF telling Dave what he says Dave thinks! Time to stop digging? My thoughts exactly. I watch HoC debate last night and heard more sense from JRM and BJ there than i hear from IRF here. And for the record I have zero tolerance for any of the arrogant views of JRM and/or BJ - both vile abominations of the human race.
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tigger
Bench Player
Posts: 125
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by tigger on Sept 4, 2019 13:22:50 GMT
Sadly I dont think it will. To be frank whatever I say this person will profess to know better and will skew whatever is said to address what appears to be a fixation of some sort. against my better judgement I will respond directly to the issue of the quote that appears to have been twisted beyond all reasonable comprehension by someone who I, too my knowledge, have never met and who certainly has not met Fab. However I am not going to get into discussions over basketball systems with someone who does not appear to know what a pick and roll is or budgets with someone who has no knowledge of them at all but professes to do so or indeed the history of winning 81 medals and 574 games entirely depending on Charles Smith popping in a few threes. Its all risible, execrable uninformed nonsense and doesn`t warrant a response. Fab and nick obviously know each other. Last year by invitation he was embedded for a couple of weeks with the team during international breaks and covered summer league. This year again present at summer league. As much as anything this presented a magnificent learning opportunity for him and by extension us as a club. We positively encouraged it. Anything else would be the most self centred betrayal of him imaginable and we dont operate that way (I of course appreciate that your `40 year knowledge of sports organisations` says different - who to believe : hey hum) If he was ever to be offered a job there would be no question of us standing in his way. As an organisation we believe in trying to offer people the opportunity to better themselves, that is the nature of being in a mid level european league. and eventually he did get offered a job. I`m told that nick would have definitely offered him that job in July (nice working knowledge there of NBA assistant coach hiring practices) and this was all a big plan to get him out the door. By someone who has no idea. Its unadulterated bollocks. Everyone in Newcastle and basically 99% of the BBL is utterly made up for him. Everyone here is desperately sad to see him go. But we all know that he had to give this a shot. Life is about personal advancements, it isnt about counting pots or getting one over on someone. Its not all about gaming the system (although politics at the moment may suggest otherwise). There is room for basic decency in professional sports. Please don`t look at our club through the viewing sphere of your own jaundiced glasses. I`m out. Hope every has a great season and will see many of you guys around on the circuit. Dave Thank you Dave for a calm, thorough and measured response.
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2NFR
Global Moderator
Posts: 6,297
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Post by 2NFR on Sept 4, 2019 17:07:28 GMT
Anyways, getting back on the thread OK ... I'm gonna stick me neck out here (don't laugh) When TJ 'the legend' Walker left us for the Jets ... he coached. Given we have a 2 time MVP on the team with several years of BBL experience. Could his name be put in the hat for coach (or even assist coach) Is it too soon for him ? ... it's just that he often comes across a wise old head on young shoulders with an acute knowledge of the game and could he possibly be the next Fab? (big shoes to fill, I know) ... or am I talking complete bollocks (again) ... Just a thought ...
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