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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 15:42:44 GMT
Nope. I said SOME players need consistency and a good run. Nothing about keeping the wrong ones. Look at Josh Ward-Hibbert. Start of last season he was out of the rotation and after the turn of the new year he became one of their best and most consistent players. And Rob kept him. He releases the ones that clearly aren't going to make it? I give up trying to explain to you...
There's too much player turnover at Leicester. Take off the rose-tinted glasses.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 6, 2020 17:21:30 GMT
And Rob kept him. He releases the ones that clearly aren't going to make it? I give up trying to explain to you...
There's too much player turnover at Leicester. Take off the rose-tinted glasses.
I don't have rose tinted glasses on at all. I just disagree with you. I've seen us win trophies the last 4 years. And one of the big reasons is Rob is ruthless with turning over players that aren't delivering. I expect to see it happen again this season and we will improve when it does. Your comments above very clearly suggested we should keep what we have longer and hope they eventually gel. I'm disagreeing with you. If we can afford to replace problem areas I expect us to do so and improve as a result. You can't polish a turd as they say. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 6, 2020 17:25:09 GMT
And Rob kept him. He releases the ones that clearly aren't going to make it? I give up trying to explain to you...
There's too much player turnover at Leicester. Take off the rose-tinted glasses.
This is what you said: "I'd say a bigger problem at Leicester is a) injuries, and b) they bring players in, test them out and then send them back and bring in others, they don't get enough time to build legitimate consistency playing together sometimes and some players need that. Last season they went from Larsson, to Martin Jr, to Williams. If they'd gotten Williams in the first place they may've taken the league. But so much trial and error can be a problem." If we hadn't turned the players over we would never have ended up with Williams and we wouldnt have won the playoffs? Simple as. If we don't turn players over again this season - we won't win trophies. Simple as. So we quite simply disagree about what works and doesn't work for Riders. You say there's too much turnover of players at Riders. I'm saying without it we wouldn't be as successful as we are? There's nothing to explain to me. I just think you are wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 18:36:48 GMT
I give up trying to explain to you...
There's too much player turnover at Leicester. Take off the rose-tinted glasses.
Your comments above very clearly suggested we should keep what we have longer and hope they eventually gel. I've now explained this numerous times and you're not getting it. I haven't said keep bad players for longer, I've said get better players in the first place and stop the endless upheavel. How ignorant are you?... I'm done with this because you clearly just want to keep repeating that you've taken a point (incorrectly) and try and get me to say I meant something I didn't. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 6, 2020 18:43:03 GMT
Your comments above very clearly suggested we should keep what we have longer and hope they eventually gel. I've now explained this numerous times and you're not getting it. I haven't said keep bad players for longer, I've said get better players in the first place and stop the endless upheavel. How ignorant are you?... This is what you said: "I'd say a bigger problem at Leicester is a) injuries, and b) they bring players in, test them out and then send them back and bring in others, they don't get enough time to build legitimate consistency playing together sometimes and some players need that." You ONLY said get better players in the first place AFTER you said the above and AFTER several posters pointed out those better players aren't always available. Entirely different argument. I'm not ignorant. I can read and I replied. Your words above speak for themselves. Youve now changed your opinion and words mid thread once I and others challenged you Make your mind up what our problem is? I'm very grateful we didn't waste more time trying to give Billy Reader or Laarsson "legitimate consistency" (your words) to play with the rest of our team in recent years. Our trophy cabinet would be empty. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 7:55:01 GMT
Your comments above very clearly suggested we should keep what we have longer and hope they eventually gel. I've now explained this numerous times and you're not getting it. I haven't said keep bad players for longer, I've said get better players in the first place and stop the endless upheavel. How ignorant are you?... I'm done with this because you clearly just want to keep repeating that you've taken a point (incorrectly) and try and get me to say I meant something I didn't. Well to the club mate |
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Post by blueskies99 on Jan 7, 2020 9:59:44 GMT
RSV.........." I've said get better players in the first place "
That's a very simplistic view point.
As we all know, the BBL and basketball in general isn't an ideal world.
Budgets dictate what players can be recruited.
Availability of players also dictates recruitment.
With the churn of players in other leagues, recruitment/availability can be an ongoing thing.
With respect to Riders last season, don't forget they spent the 1st two months of the season playing in Europe which was always going to create some recruitment activity/issues.
On the injury front, I tend to agree but that could be down to the fact Riders seem to train 7 days a week.......
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 7, 2020 10:10:42 GMT
How often do clubs get 3 imports who are all the quality they need at the start of the season?
Most player complaints on here are about players who aren't good enough and need replacing
Riders and Rob have been in a position to be able to replace and thats no doubt one of the reasons we have been successful in recent years
I don't think player turnover is our problem
I go back to what I said at the start of the thread
By the end of the season we tend to have very good players on board who have options elsewhere at end of season and we have to start again
Many clubs end the season with imports who won't have any better options elsewhere. And just don't get brought back or get brought back to mediocrity
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 7, 2020 10:29:21 GMT
How often do clubs get 3 imports who are all the quality they need at the start of the season? Most player complaints on here are about players who aren't good enough and need replacing Riders and Rob have been in a position to be able to replace and thats no doubt one of the reasons we have been successful in recent years I don't think player turnover is our problem I go back to what I said at the start of the thread By the end of the season we tend to have very good players on board who have options elsewhere at end of season and we have to start again Many clubs end the season with imports who won't have any better options elsewhere. And just don't get brought back or get brought back to mediocrity I actually don't think player turnover is a massive problem at Riders at all as it goes, and we're in danger of agreeing here IRF so sit down!!!!!!!
They seem to have kept a solid core of Thompson/JWH/Lascelles (is he anywhere close to fitness by the way?)/Anderson and have had players like Hampton/Washington/Holder/Bernardini/Rowe/Lamble in the past who tend to keep the continuity over the years, and I think they're hoping that Jesse will become part of the continuity as well, and probably Jonas Deitrich and Alex Roberts too (who should have increased roles in the coming years). I thought Scott was probably part of that conversation at one stage too because on paper he seemed to offer something but if he's not close to being cut now then I'll be amazed.
The only interchange they've had really is among the imports. From last season they needed to replace Clark who clearly wasn't getting it done at Point guard (possibly persisted with him too long) - they've done that with Cartwright who's going to be in the conversation for MVP whether we like it or not.
They also had to replace Holder owing to him seeking better opportunities in Europe (a BBL par) and seemingly have done so relatively seamlessly with Namon Wright (lost a bit of creativity there I think though). In fact the only guy they've brought in from the start of the season is Nelson Henry, who was an absolute necessity owing to the injury to Mo Walker (a guy they've not cut despite a long term injury).
There was a bit of a problem last season in so far as Europe was concerned (and they had injury problems too) and they did let a few go and get a few in, but its hard to deny they weren't a better team at the end of the season than they were at the start as a result of the changes - so I'm not really sure where the idea Leicester have a massive turnover of players comes from nor the argument that they'd be better to just stick with what they have. If anything they've been too kind to a clearly sub par Joe Scott this season and in seasons past my favourite player Eric Robertson, Clark last season, Hampton clearly struggling with injuries etc - other teams would have chopped.
I think the practice situation needs looking at because injury does seem to be a recurring theme, but I don't know enough about the regime to comment on that in any further detail. I'd also say they could do with looking at the balance of their roster, because right now they don't have much creativity outside of Cartwright (I'm not sure Wright, as good a scorer as he is, is as team orientated as Holder and Chuku certainly isn't as good a distributer as Hampton - though few are).
I find the player turnover argument strange though.
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jan 7, 2020 12:00:17 GMT
How often do clubs get 3 imports who are all the quality they need at the start of the season? Most player complaints on here are about players who aren't good enough and need replacing Riders and Rob have been in a position to be able to replace and thats no doubt one of the reasons we have been successful in recent years I don't think player turnover is our problem I go back to what I said at the start of the thread By the end of the season we tend to have very good players on board who have options elsewhere at end of season and we have to start again Many clubs end the season with imports who won't have any better options elsewhere. And just don't get brought back or get brought back to mediocrity I actually don't think player turnover is a massive problem at Riders at all as it goes, and we're in danger of agreeing here IRF so sit down!!!!!!!
They seem to have kept a solid core of Thompson/JWH/Lascelles (is he anywhere close to fitness by the way?)/Anderson and have had players like Hampton/Washington/Holder/Bernardini/Rowe/Lamble in the past who tend to keep the continuity over the years, and I think they're hoping that Jesse will become part of the continuity as well, and probably Jonas Deitrich and Alex Roberts too (who should have increased roles in the coming years). I thought Scott was probably part of that conversation at one stage too because on paper he seemed to offer something but if he's not close to being cut now then I'll be amazed.
The only interchange they've had really is among the imports. From last season they needed to replace Clark who clearly wasn't getting it done at Point guard (possibly persisted with him too long) - they've done that with Cartwright who's going to be in the conversation for MVP whether we like it or not.
They also had to replace Holder owing to him seeking better opportunities in Europe (a BBL par) and seemingly have done so relatively seamlessly with Namon Wright (lost a bit of creativity there I think though). In fact the only guy they've brought in from the start of the season is Nelson Henry, who was an absolute necessity owing to the injury to Mo Walker (a guy they've not cut despite a long term injury).
There was a bit of a problem last season in so far as Europe was concerned (and they had injury problems too) and they did let a few go and get a few in, but its hard to deny they weren't a better team at the end of the season than they were at the start as a result of the changes - so I'm not really sure where the idea Leicester have a massive turnover of players comes from nor the argument that they'd be better to just stick with what they have. If anything they've been too kind to a clearly sub par Joe Scott this season and in seasons past my favourite player Eric Robertson, Clark last season, Hampton clearly struggling with injuries etc - other teams would have chopped.
I think the practice situation needs looking at because injury does seem to be a recurring theme, but I don't know enough about the regime to comment on that in any further detail. I'd also say they could do with looking at the balance of their roster, because right now they don't have much creativity outside of Cartwright (I'm not sure Wright, as good a scorer as he is, is as team orientated as Holder and Chuku certainly isn't as good a distributer as Hampton - though few are).
I find the player turnover argument strange though.
Glad you posted this Bigz because it all felt a bit surreal reading the back and forth arguments about us having too much turnover in terms of playing staff. If anything, I'd suggest we weren't ruthless enough in some years. Larsson was evidently not going to cut the mustard and even I could see that so Rob must have been tearing his hair out week after week. Scott is an interesting case - he failed to impress in his first 4 or 5 games but then seemed to get into a groove with 3 point shooting which demonstrated why he was brought in. At the last game he was barely used at all except for defence when we were trying to stop the opponents scoring in the dying seconds of a quarter. The fact he's a dual national was a strong argument in his favour but perhaps he is vulnerable now to us bringing in a European PG to work alongside Cartwright? I think if we had a PG able to put up 10 PPG or better and distribute the ball well to enable others to score more each game that'd be worth the price. As things stand now though (getting back on to the thread) we do not have the firepower or balance imo to win the league. Perhaps a cup (Trophy?) but not much else. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 7, 2020 17:10:49 GMT
I'm glad you said it Bigz simply because I keep getting called ignorant for disagreeing with it
I personally think we are more ruthless than most clubs. But that's because we can afford it and we have higher expectations than other clubs. I know rob doesn't like to cut players but sometimes needs must.
I don't believe eagles are ruthless enough.
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erd87
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Post by erd87 on Jan 7, 2020 18:56:45 GMT
I'm glad you said it Bigz simply because I keep getting called ignorant for disagreeing with it I personally think we are more ruthless than most clubs. But that's because we can afford it and we have higher expectations than other clubs. I know rob doesn't like to cut players but sometimes needs must. I don't believe eagles are ruthless enough. Although I would normally have agreed with that viewpoint, Eagles made a pretty unpopular decision to cut Mitchell this year which was very unpopular with a lot of fans. That's turned out pretty well so far. |
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Post by Steven McTowelie on Jan 8, 2020 0:02:47 GMT
Biggest obstacle to signing Williams from the outset last season was that he wasn't available. He'd signed a deal to play in Poland by the end of July. Read that he turned up injured too so probably a good thing we didn't get him then. We've had enough experience with that in recent years. I wasn't particularly impressed with our recruitment last season. Don't think it ever looked like being good enough given the task at hand. And we certainly did our fair share of chopping and changing. We're hardly the first team in BBL history that could be said of though and I don't think we're serial offenders.
We've actually recruited some pretty exciting talent this season. Unfortunately this is the shallowest Riders squad in years at present. Lascelles has been out for weeks and is limited anyway. We've got what I imagine is a pretty decent chunk of money tied up in a guy who hasn't played a minute for us yet and might not do all season. And Joe Scott, I'm afraid, is a waste of space. Looked a bit of an odd one from the get-go really. A 31 year old former NCAA 3 player who had only played professionally on and off. Have to imagine Bernardini was heavily involved here. Well it hasn't worked out. He's our third best option at the only position he can properly play and you can practically count the number of games he's shown up for so far on your thumbs. Definitely time to send him packing in my view.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 8, 2020 8:44:08 GMT
And Joe Scott, I'm afraid, is a waste of space. Looked a bit of an odd one from the get-go really. A 31 year old former NCAA 3 player who had only played professionally on and off. Have to imagine Bernardini was heavily involved here. Well it hasn't worked out. He's our third best option at the only position he can properly play and you can practically count the number of games he's shown up for so far on your thumbs. Definitely time to send him packing in my view. I agree with this. He's going to start to overstep the mark into Robertson territory if they keep him on and he doesn't do anything more very fast, as he's offering nothing over and above what the Loughborough boys could bring to the table and I'd rather they developed young brits rather than play an (at best) journeyman. |
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Post by gloryeagle on Jan 8, 2020 12:46:53 GMT
I'm glad you said it Bigz simply because I keep getting called ignorant for disagreeing with it I personally think we are more ruthless than most clubs. But that's because we can afford it and we have higher expectations than other clubs. I know rob doesn't like to cut players but sometimes needs must. I don't believe eagles are ruthless enough. Although I would normally have agreed with that viewpoint, Eagles made a pretty unpopular decision to cut Mitchell this year which was very unpopular with a lot of fans. That's turned out pretty well so far. Has it? Since we cut Mitchell we've been dumped out of the cup and hammered at home to Sharks in the league. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 8, 2020 13:37:58 GMT
Although I would normally have agreed with that viewpoint, Eagles made a pretty unpopular decision to cut Mitchell this year which was very unpopular with a lot of fans. That's turned out pretty well so far. Has it? Since we cut Mitchell we've been dumped out of the cup and hammered at home to Sharks in the league.
Was that Gettys' fault? Would Mitchell have made a bigger difference?
Gettys is a massive upgrade on Mitchell, however much I liked his blue collar attitude.
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Post by gloryeagle on Jan 8, 2020 14:03:16 GMT
Has it? Since we cut Mitchell we've been dumped out of the cup and hammered at home to Sharks in the league.
Was that Gettys' fault? Would Mitchell have made a bigger difference?
Gettys is a massive upgrade on Mitchell, however much I liked his blue collar attitude.
Possibly not - I'd question if he's a massive upgrade though, I really would. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 8, 2020 14:09:06 GMT
Was that Gettys' fault? Would Mitchell have made a bigger difference?
Gettys is a massive upgrade on Mitchell, however much I liked his blue collar attitude.
Possibly not - I'd question if he's a massive upgrade though, I really would. I can guarantee at least 15 and 8 from Gettys. And he's in shape now too. Plugs a lot up defensively inside without necessarily getting highlight reel blocks and hes not likely to brain fart (for example throw up a three with 0 rebounders and 17 seconds left on a shot clock when the games tied with a minute to go).
I liked Mitchell's grit and grind don't get me wrong, and he'd fit on a few BBL rosters this season. But his basketball IQ was questionable at times.
Gettys can be a little cock sure, given, but overall his heads in a far better place and his contribution is guaranteed. I didn't know what was going to happen with Mitchell from play to play or statistically - can affect other players stuff like that too.
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erd87
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Post by erd87 on Jan 8, 2020 15:24:37 GMT
Although I would normally have agreed with that viewpoint, Eagles made a pretty unpopular decision to cut Mitchell this year which was very unpopular with a lot of fans. That's turned out pretty well so far. Has it? Since we cut Mitchell we've been dumped out of the cup and hammered at home to Sharks in the league. There are still issues with the team, but I would say taking that decision in isolation it's a definite upgrade. I liked Mitchell but he was frustrating at times, he was clumsy around the basket and made some terrible decisions playing hero ball at times. Gettys is a far more reliable player, and has a much higher basketball IQ. |
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jan 8, 2020 16:34:16 GMT
If, as someone's posted, Glasgow is available to play now he and Gettys will definitely make Eagles a stronger, better team. Hard to guard Glasgow & Fletcher when both on court.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 8, 2020 21:34:30 GMT
And Joe Scott, I'm afraid, is a waste of space. Looked a bit of an odd one from the get-go really. A 31 year old former NCAA 3 player who had only played professionally on and off. Have to imagine Bernardini was heavily involved here. Well it hasn't worked out. He's our third best option at the only position he can properly play and you can practically count the number of games he's shown up for so far on your thumbs. Definitely time to send him packing in my view. I agree with this. He's going to start to overstep the mark into Robertson territory if they keep him on and he doesn't do anything more very fast, as he's offering nothing over and above what the Loughborough boys could bring to the table and I'd rather they developed young brits rather than play an (at best) journeyman. I obviously hope Scott comes good for us. However, based on what I've seen from him so far and what I saw from Robertson I would take Robertson every day of the week way ahead of Scott. |
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jan 8, 2020 22:19:48 GMT
Both were good defenders but Scott's offence has been disappointing considering his stats last season. Perhaps he'll fare better if we secure another PG though? He's really not cut out for that role as has been shown.
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