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Post by stevetino on Jan 5, 2020 10:26:49 GMT
Sorry I know nothing about Solent, but surely there is a case for a south coast BBL team between them and Worthing ? The area already provides 3 Premiership teams and it wouldn’t be too big a move for any Royals survivors ?? They Could be known as Solent Thames valley Bears 🤣 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 10:26:56 GMT
Ovie was never going to be with us for the Wolves game, he already had a holiday booked. The game against Solent wasn't even scheduled when he signed, so it's quite likely he had something else committed to already. I doubt we would have won with Ovie playing anyway! Clearly the team didn't have a plan or enough commitment to get the win. I think they probably didn't go into the game with enough respect for Solent & got caught out for it, Ovie wouldn't have changed that! Forget about whether he physically or individually would make a difference or not I said months ago I hope he signs for lions because of the disruption and distraction it brings to them. It's so disruptive to Lions. The fact is Lions have gone from being a serious league winning team and squad to just better than average with this decision. It's Micky mouse really. Last year they were so tough to beat week in week out This year they aren't - simple as that. They've gone backwards and soko becoming a focus and a distraction has meant that Lions have gone backwards not forwards. Having got in a position of strength they've not moved forwards. I predicted this would benefit the rest of us if he signed and was challenged when I did. Vince has taken his eye off the ball. Simple as that. Be honest Pat. What would you prefer? Last year's squad without soko at all ever. Or this year's squad with soko whenever he can be there? It's not even up for debate surely? It's amateur what Lions have done. Last year they were run like a professional club. This year they are reality tv entertainment in comparison. Let's be honest. It's not sokos fault. It's Vinces fault for thinking adding him to the squad could be a good idea. If it ain't broke don't fix it Am I wrong? You didn't just predict it. You bored us all shtless about it. And then threw your toys out of the pram.
While you know everything, you don't know the individual situation of every single member of last year's Lions' team and whether they were willing to re-sign at a price they could afford. So maybe it was broken.
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Post by stevetino on Jan 5, 2020 10:31:51 GMT
Vince 2 busy ringing shopping centres for Lions to play in when copper box kicks them out
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 10:48:59 GMT
What does being in BBL give solent they don't already have I'm sure they sell lots of tickets and their fans must love watching them beat everyone Why make life harder for themselves? Exactly INF, they like being the big fish they did a double last year . They were Cup runners up in 2017 & 2019 and D1 runners-up in 2018. It's hardly world domination. If in three years time they're on the verge of winning yet another treble, maybe they could be accused of being content to beat up on smaller clubs.
The reality is the BBL want a large sum of money to compete in their competition and Solent's venue isn't up to BBL standard and - realistically - never will be, even before the roof leaked. So it's all a bit moot
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Post by gloryeagle on Jan 5, 2020 11:48:50 GMT
Sorry I know nothing about Solent, but surely there is a case for a south coast BBL team between them and Worthing ? The area already provides 3 Premiership teams and it wouldn’t be too big a move for any Royals survivors ?? Worthing were a BBL side briefly, but couldn't make it financially viable so stepped back down to the EBL. If only more clubs in the past had been wise enough to do so. |
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Post by allstring on Jan 5, 2020 13:03:56 GMT
Daniel Routledge @dan_routledge · 10h Leaving aside the fact that TSK are undefeated so this result hasn't come from nowhere, if you judge it based on the team they beat I would say this is probaly top 3 upsets in a KO competition. The other two would be Palace in 95/96 and @ridersbball in 81/82 who both made Cup SF So who goes back far enough to remember those 2 upsets? Solent (Stars) have form ofcourse. Forty years ago they were formed in Division 2 and were just about as good as any team in the country. They lost narrowly to Birmingham (who went on to win Division 1 that year) in the Cup. Not surprising with a team featuring he likes of Mark Saiers, Jimmie Guymon, Karl Tatham, Paul Philp and Kenny Walton. They did pretty much beat everyone in the other competitions running that season. As their only Cup match against a Div 1 team before promotion the next season (finishing second in their first season and then champions) they don't qualify for the list of Cup upsets. Solent Stars were a fantastic brand, but in reality it only lasted three or four years before the money dried up ... sound familiar? |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 5, 2020 13:51:26 GMT
I dont think its a case of him not being bothered - just has better opportunities open to him. Its the BBL, if its a toss up between that or, for example, filming the coke adverts hes been doing recently, its a no brainer financially. Ovie was never going to be with us for the Wolves game, he already had a holiday booked. The game against Solent wasn't even scheduled when he signed, so it's quite likely he had something else committed to already. I doubt we would have won with Ovie playing anyway! Clearly the team didn't have a plan or enough commitment to get the win. I think they probably didn't go into the game with enough respect for Solent & got caught out for it, Ovie wouldn't have changed that! Oh mate I dont think he would have changed anything dont get me wrong, I just refuse to accept he wasnt there because he simply couldnt be bothered - ludicrous suggestion. I dont know if its been mentioned or not but Solent were actually missing their top scorer too. The Giants/Worthing game will be interesting this afternoon. I do think Solent are on another level to everyone else in D1 tbh and are possibly a top half BBL team, but theres no way Id have said theyd have beaten lions before tip even with their top scorer, let alone so comfortably. I guess this is another chance for me to point out how highly I rate Matt Guymon though. Brilliant coach. |
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Post by retsek on Jan 6, 2020 8:59:16 GMT
Daniel Routledge @dan_routledge · 10h Leaving aside the fact that TSK are undefeated so this result hasn't come from nowhere, if you judge it based on the team they beat I would say this is probaly top 3 upsets in a KO competition. The other two would be Palace in 95/96 and @ridersbball in 81/82 who both made Cup SF So who goes back far enough to remember those 2 upsets? I know this wasn't a trophy game, but the biggest upset I can ever remember was also a London team, and was Hemel and Watford Royals beating the London Towers in the 96/97 season by like 5 points I think? This was a perennial basement dweller vs absolute bbl powerhouse at the time and an almost inconceivable result. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 11:22:34 GMT
Pat posted a link to that game recently.
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Post by connors on Jan 6, 2020 14:13:08 GMT
I think it is quite a positive for the sport that these (with Worthing doing the same) upsets. I don't think it is just a poorly motivated BBL team. I think the two teams in question are a cut above the normal D1 standard and have proved that. It gives relevance to the competition.
Talk of these teams being in the BBL is of course premature because as everyone on this site knows keeping a team together for more than one season is extremely difficult in this country. That for me is a key difference with the better, more successful BBL teams.....somehow they manage to keep a competitive squad on the floor season after season. If Kestrels can continue to dominate their level and upset more BBL teams next season then I think it might be more worthwhile for them to consider a BBL move.
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Post by saintpat on Jan 6, 2020 18:14:52 GMT
Pat posted a link to that game recently. I did, I'm now thinking that I've been hit by some form of Karma!! It's here again case anyone is interested! link |
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Post by faz on Jan 6, 2020 22:12:54 GMT
Solent are 14-0
Hemel storm - 11-3
Reading rockets 10-4
Thames Valley 9-4
Worthing 9-3
Not 2 teams that could give the bbl teams a meaningful game ?
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Post by benji on Jan 6, 2020 22:16:30 GMT
Possibly other teams were invited but declined.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 22:37:01 GMT
Reading haven't been invited since deciding they didn't fancy traveling to play a Scottish League team.
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Post by benji on Jan 7, 2020 8:21:23 GMT
Reading haven't been invited since deciding they didn't fancy traveling to play a Scottish League team. Fair point, I forgot that! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 9:37:09 GMT
And Hemel flirted with relegation and didn't reach the playoffs, so they wouldn't be invited.
If the bbl want it competitive they need to invite the top four (aside from Loughborough) and restore guaranteed home court advantage which compensates for D1 sides being limited to 2 imports. But it's questionable just how competitive they do want it. This weekend's been a bit embarrassing.
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 7, 2020 9:44:21 GMT
And Hemel flirted with relegation and didn't reach the playoffs, so they wouldn't be invited. If the bbl want it competitive they need to invite the top four (aside from Loughborough) and restore guaranteed home court advantage which compensates for D1 sides being limited to 2 imports. But it's questionable just how competitive they do want it. This weekend's been a bit embarrassing. See I don't agree with the bit embarrassing part.
Yes its a shocker in so far as you'd expect the BBL teams to beat the NBL teams, but for me that's the point in inviting teams like that in the first place. Someone referenced the FA Cup previously - and the premise of an upset is exactly the same - quite frankly you love to see it.
The embarrassing part was inviting Wales and (arguably to a lesser extent as Scottish champs who happened to lose a few players in the off season) Dunfermline. Because they were tonkings - Wales nearly had as many turnovers as points and nobody in double figure scoring. Pointless games.
I've no problem in principle with inviting Wales to compete by the way, but on the basis that their squad is looked at in terms of competitiveness before the invite is extended. They have maybe two players capable of competing at D1 NBL level? Honestly having a team score 34 points in a game is far more embarrassing to me than having NBL teams upset BBL teams (even if they are the current BBL champs!)
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Post by connors on Jan 7, 2020 13:31:40 GMT
I agree Bigz. I think it is great for the competition to see the odd upset. You would hope that the best NBL teams would be capable in a one off game of turning over a BBL team.
I've always been fascinated by how few real upsets happen in basketball and to some extent rugby versus football. I've always put it down to the precision that sports played with the hand have versus those with the feet!
I guess also with the popularity of football the gap in ability between the elite Premier League players and those in the lower divisions is perhaps smaller than it would be in basketball?
Lets see if they can do it again!
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 7, 2020 13:59:27 GMT
I've always been fascinated by how few real upsets happen in basketball and to some extent rugby versus football. Wrestled with this one myself for a while with the basketball vs football upsets debate. Not so much rugby as its not really my thing so couldn't comment.
I put it down to the necessity to remain on the offensive for 40 minutes. In a game of football a team can get a lucky break from a corner as a result of a ball sliced out of play and go 1-0 up then sit 11 men behind the ball in a dogs of war type spirit for 90 minutes and have about 10% of the ball but win 1-0. I've seen my team (Celtic) do it Vs Barcelona at Parkhead and produce one of the least likely results ever.
In basketball, you have to actively try and score the ball and play at both ends for the full game or realistically you will lose. Its why teams often run out of steam or just cant hang on in games.
And that's literally the best I could come up with.
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Post by connors on Jan 7, 2020 15:57:55 GMT
I think you are on to it there. I guess the more scores that occur in a sport the harder it is for the underdog to win.
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Post by LTFan on Jan 9, 2020 11:17:03 GMT
If Kestrels can continue to dominate their level and upset more BBL teams next season then I think it might be more worthwhile for them to consider a BBL move. You might be right, but the fact their new arena wasn't designed to the required BBL standard (when it could have been) would suggest they aren't preparing in a move to the BBL any time soon. Personally I'd like to see Solent and/or Worthing in the BBL, but we all know it's a complex decision for any NBL team to make. |
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Post by scotball on Jan 9, 2020 13:49:26 GMT
If Kestrels can continue to dominate their level and upset more BBL teams next season then I think it might be more worthwhile for them to consider a BBL move. You might be right, but the fact their new arena wasn't designed to the required BBL standard (when it could have been) would suggest they aren't preparing in a move to the BBL any time soon. Personally I'd like to see Solent and/or Worthing in the BBL, but we all know it's a complex decision for any NBL team to make. I'm sorry but this fabled 'BBL standard' line is laughable. 1. We have current BBL teams playing in worse arenas than Solent (imo Bristol, Manchester, London City, Sheffield) 2. We worry about venue size when almost no BBL team regularly fills their own arena (most of which are under this magic 2000 seats anyway). If more teams had a venue like Solent - basketball only wooden floor - clean, comfortable seating - bright white lighting - good broadcasting facilities (dedicated space, good WiFi connectivity) the BBL with regards to venues would be much better and look considerably more professional. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Jan 9, 2020 14:17:42 GMT
You might be right, but the fact their new arena wasn't designed to the required BBL standard (when it could have been) would suggest they aren't preparing in a move to the BBL any time soon. Personally I'd like to see Solent and/or Worthing in the BBL, but we all know it's a complex decision for any NBL team to make. I'm sorry but this fabled 'BBL standard' line is laughable. 1. We have current BBL teams playing in worse arenas than Solent (imo Bristol, Manchester, London City, Sheffield) 2. We worry about venue size when almost no BBL team regularly fills their own arena (most of which are under this magic 2000 seats anyway). If more teams had a venue like Solent - basketball only wooden floor - clean, comfortable seating - bright white lighting - good broadcasting facilities (dedicated space, good WiFi connectivity) the BBL with regards to venues would be much better and look considerably more professional. Compare them to the Royals setup and I know which I prefer Having said that as I've said before what's really the attraction for Solent to leave where they are and join BBL What's the benefit for them They are doing great doing what they do aren't they? BBL is no golden chalice |
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Post by LTFan on Jan 9, 2020 14:34:19 GMT
You might be right, but the fact their new arena wasn't designed to the required BBL standard (when it could have been) would suggest they aren't preparing in a move to the BBL any time soon. Personally I'd like to see Solent and/or Worthing in the BBL, but we all know it's a complex decision for any NBL team to make. I'm sorry but this fabled 'BBL standard' line is laughable. 1. We have current BBL teams playing in worse arenas than Solent (imo Bristol, Manchester, London City, Sheffield) 2. We worry about venue size when almost no BBL team regularly fills their own arena (most of which are under this magic 2000 seats anyway). If more teams had a venue like Solent - basketball only wooden floor - clean, comfortable seating - bright white lighting - good broadcasting facilities (dedicated space, good WiFi connectivity) the BBL with regards to venues would be much better and look considerably more professional. For what it's worth, I don't disagree with you. But if there are rules in regards to achieving a BBL franchise why would you chose not to conform to them when designing your new venue if you had any intention on joining the BBL - even if you know there are existing BBL franchises that don't conform to the rules. It just suggests they aren't interested in the BBL, probably for multiple reasons. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jan 10, 2020 8:13:50 GMT
I dont understand why theyd want to go to the BBL if Im honest. Pay an extortionate entry fee for what extra gain? Theres no financial incentive there whatsoever.
If theyre getting good numbers and the business model is sustainable then they dont need to go to the BBL at all.
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