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Post by sporty on Nov 24, 2020 17:36:47 GMT
I also watched them at Brighton a few times. One of the best venues and they knew how to entertain the large crowds. Not sure if it was Nick Nurse that arranged all of the game day experience. Very impressive
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 24, 2020 17:49:06 GMT
Almost 12,000 people signed the recent petition for Government funding during Covid19. This map shows you where all those people live... so gives a good indication of what areas in the UK have a basketball following but no team. petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=324801Really interesting. Quite a few apparent basketball hotbeds without a BBL team. Some have good facilities. In no particular order: South Wales Oxford Milton Keynes Dorset coast Sussex coast Colchester Ipswich Derby |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 9:14:51 GMT
MK had a BBL team, Milton Keynes Lions from 1998 till 2012. Plus of course Derby Storm who went by Derby Rams when they had NBA Championship winning coach, Nick Nurse as player/coach.
I'd love a BBL2, it'd really improve the sport in this country I reckon. It must contain Pro/Rel as well.
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Post by Solly on Nov 25, 2020 10:58:43 GMT
I'd love a BBL2, it'd really improve the sport in this country I reckon. It must contain Pro/Rel as well.
Pro/Rel?
Ladies of the night and their kin? It could make for a different experience at the lower level.
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Post by RaidersFan92 on Nov 25, 2020 11:28:24 GMT
I'd love a BBL2, it'd really improve the sport in this country I reckon. It must contain Pro/Rel as well.
Pro/Rel?
Ladies of the night and their kin? It could make for a different experience at the lower level.
Promotion relegation I assume |
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Post by number23 on Nov 25, 2020 16:03:53 GMT
I’m definitely on board with a second, ‘semi-pro’ tier to the BBL, as I’ve said on here before. I feel it would give professionally minded outfits the time and environment to build a viable paying fanbase, which is a long-term project for basketball in the UK. Direct entry to the top tier often doesn’t allow enough time for this before the money dries up, and competing in sports halls against largely amateur clubs in NBL D2/D3 doesn’t help project a professional image to prospective fans.
I think there’s enough clubs in the upper reaches of the NBL with a venue of a similar standard to a WBBL club to make a go of a second tier. (Especially if you add in the Derby arena and new Birmingham venue mentioned elsewhere.) I’d rather see them brought together to grow that pool further, rather than push one into the BBL early just to have a ‘twelfth team’.
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Post by lexumcomp on Nov 25, 2020 17:26:03 GMT
Should probably get BBL1 where it needs to be before worrying about a BBL2.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 17:48:56 GMT
They've had a third of a century to do that. Maybe a bbl ii might improve over all standards. But speaking of standards that's a standard "life outside the BBL doesn't matter"
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 25, 2020 18:56:14 GMT
I think there is a need for a BBL2 to allow BBL1 to improve.
I think basketball teams can be categorised as:
Professional clubs in professional looking arenas, suitable for BBL1.
Pro/semi pro clubs using small venues, with smaller budgets but with aspirations to be BBL1 clubs, suitable for BBL2.
Community basketball clubs and academy teams without current aspirations to have a BBL franchise, suitable for NBL1.
In my opinion there are eight current BBL teams that have quite good looking venues, as viewed from home. The other 3 BBL teams could start in BBL2 along with any NBL1 or other teams that want to apply to be in BBL2. There should be one up one down promotion and relegation between BBL2 and BBL1, but only if the BBL2 champion (or regular season winner) meets the minimum standard for BBL1, which would include 1000 seats arena.
I think teams like Hemel, Reading and Worthing would like to play in the BBL2, along with smaller BBL teams like Bristol and Surrey Scorchers. And also be included in the BBL Cup. BBL2 would provide a slightly easier entry level for new teams to join the BBL, for example should a new Milton Keynes team be formed. And BBL1 could have higher standards of venue and higher salary caps, enabling teams to be competitive in Europe.
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Post by faz on Nov 26, 2020 8:23:24 GMT
As and when it comes I’d rank Flyers up there with Eagles and Riders being one of the teams that has their own facility. Impressive academy junior programme too.
Lions and Raiders seem to have an opportunity to progress with their foreign investment.
Wolves snd Scorchers play out of local uni’s
Rocks the commonwealth centre
Giants the NBC
Phoenix a leisure centre
Sharks bounced back to EIS?
None of these will benefit from refreshment sales etc
Anyway what would be the difference between a BBL2 and the current NBL 1?
What about a NBL premiership?
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 26, 2020 9:10:47 GMT
As and when it comes I’d rank Flyers up there with Eagles and Riders being one of the teams that has their own facility. Impressive academy junior programme too. Lions and Raiders seem to have an opportunity to progress with their foreign investment. Wolves snd Scorchers play out of local uni’s Rocks the commonwealth centre Giants the NBC Phoenix a leisure centre Sharks bounced back to EIS? None of these will benefit from refreshment sales etc Anyway what would be the difference between a BBL2 and the current NBL 1? What about a NBL premiership? The difference between BBL2 and NBL1 would be, if I understand this correctly, any team will end up in NBL1 if it just keeps getting promoted, whereas BBL2 will have certain standards. For example, venue capacity, but probably more importantly, appearance. Admittedly the standard would need to be quite low or there won't be enough teams for a league. The second difference is there would be promotion relegation between BBL2 and BBL1, not between NBL1 and BBL2, although again, this will be limited by the BBL2 champion meeting the BBL1 criteria. The third different would be BBL1 and BBL2 would be managed by the same organisation, with a strategy for the whole of the BBL. So, for example, they might decide to put all BBL1 games behind a pay wall, and show BBL2 for free. But whatever is decided will be for a central strategy to fund and grow the professional game. At the moment the NBL and the BBL, and even individual clubs, are doing their own thing. With a single strategy the BBL will be able to maximize revenue, and also decide where to allocate budget. |
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Post by number23 on Nov 26, 2020 9:38:09 GMT
Anyway what would be the difference between a BBL2 and the current NBL 1? What about a NBL premiership? I gather a premiership concept was attempted in the early 2000s under the ‘NBL Conference’ name. The standards for the Conference were relaxed enough that promotion and relegation was allowed between the top of the rest of the NBL with little to no off-court criteria though, so it amounted to little more than a branding exercise. Obviously that was a while ago, but the impression I get is that BE would still prioritise participation over commercial considerations, so I’d expect a similar outcome. I’m not saying either goal is better than the other, but with tight resources clubs have to focus on what’s important to them, and I think the NBL struggles from trying to be all things to all people - particularly in D1. I see splitting the ‘semi-pro’ group into their own league as a way to give both camps a tighter focus for their respective ambitions. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 19:05:20 GMT
The Conference was due to be launched as a six team elite who would work together to bring in sponsorship, increase standards and while it would have prom/rel, clubs would only join if they met strict criteria. EBBA (as it was, before the rebrand, and before the rebrand of the rebrand) immediately screwed it by letting two clubs in who didn't fit the criteria (making an eight team league) and by its second season it was NBL 1 in all but name. BE came into existence and rebranded it as EBL 1.
You're right in the final sentence of paragraph 1 and all of para 2.
If I learned anything over the summer it's that semi-pro basketball has absolutely no future while governed by BE. And I'm not sure (most of) its hierarchy even want to deal with that level of the game.
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kautostar
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Post by kautostar on Nov 29, 2020 20:09:34 GMT
Leeds
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 30, 2020 9:34:17 GMT
Hopefully one day professional basketball will return to Leeds, but I am not aware of anything being done to make that happen. However, this season will be the first for Leeds Rhinos Netball, which is an exciting new team for the city. It's home venue hasn't yet been announced, but I expect it to be Leeds Beckett University, Leeds Force's old home. |
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MrWorldwide
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Post by MrWorldwide on Nov 30, 2020 20:31:06 GMT
Surprised that Cardiff has never been a real contender for a BBL location. Would help the British Basketball League be more truly British instead of just English plus 1 Scottish team, could have a great rivalry with Flyers, and already has a team in the WBBL. Several good venues to choose from including the Archers Arena (500 seats) where the women play in the WBBL, National Sports Centre (1200 seats) where the Netball team plays, plus bigger venues like the House of Sport, Viola Arena (if they covered the ice - has been done before in Sheffield, Newcastle, Guildford etc.) or even the larger Motorpoint Arena.
Birmingham is the must have city for future expansion though, as long as it is done properly unlike the previous one season wonders, Knights and Panthers. Would also be nice to see a team from across the Irish Sea involved. There is a good basketball-specific arena in Dublin (Tallaght) though I think the SSE Arena in Belfast might be too expensive. Totally out of the left field but Bournemouth has a nice arena in the BIC (similar to Pavilions layout, and has held Harlem Globetrotter events before). Would make for a good southwest rivalry between them, Raiders and Flyers. Of course, it takes more than just suitable venues to make it work.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 20:46:16 GMT
Yes, you need a competitive team which makes it a non starter at BBL level, perhaps if there's a BBL2 then it could provide a stepping stone to eventual BBL participation.
I'd love to see all 4 Home Nations + Plus a team from Republic of Ireland in a BBL2 set up, no pro/rel for at least 3 seasons then after bring it in, allows teams to plan ahead financially.
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Nov 30, 2020 21:40:16 GMT
I agree; teams in all 4 or 5 countries would appeal to the sporting culture of these islands. That would actually be something really special. As far as I know there are not any sports leagues that cover Britain and both Irelands.
As well as the basketball arena in Dublin already mentioned, Dublin has a beautiful new Nation Indoor Arena.
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Post by dandayr on Nov 30, 2020 22:44:50 GMT
I agree; teams in all 4 or 5 countries would appeal to the sporting culture of these islands. That would actually be something really special. As far as I know there are not any sports leagues that cover Britain and both Irelands. As well as the basketball arena in Dublin already mentioned, Dublin has a beautiful new Nation Indoor Arena. the appeal was mixed and it was not a league but it was a cup covering all countries - cut short by covid: 2019-20 Tunnocks Caramel Wafer Challenge Cup2 clubs from Northern Ireland Football League (Ballymena United & Glenavon) 2 clubs from Welsh Premier League (The New Saints & Connah’s Quay Nomads) 2 clubs from League of Ireland Premier Division (Waterford & Bohemians) 2 clubs from English National League (Solihull Moors & Wrexham) 10 clubs from Ladbrokes Championship (tier 2 in Scotland) 14 winners from second round (mix of tiers 3,4 and U21 colts from tier 1 clubs) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 0:07:50 GMT
Just imagine Wrexham being in it again, imagine Deadpool up at Dens Park
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Post by spaced on Dec 1, 2020 10:18:42 GMT
Thames Valley Tigers 🙏
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Post by LTFan on Dec 1, 2020 16:05:51 GMT
Surprised that Cardiff has never been a real contender for a BBL location. When Vince was looking (needing) to relocate MK Lions his first two choices were Liverpool and Cardiff. I believe Cardiff didn't work out mainly due to venue issues (and Liverpool didn't work out because it would have essentially been a merger with Mersey Tigers and they couldn't agree on the terms). But I know both cities were considered long before London. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 17:21:43 GMT
Question RE: Arena conversion
Is there anyone here who knows how long it takes to convert say an ice hockey surface to a basketball floor? I'm just thinking about Cardiff and Viola Arena. Perhaps the owners of the Devils could create a Multisport team and have a Cardiff Devils basketball team. Then again someone would need to ask the question.
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Dec 1, 2020 17:54:09 GMT
Question RE: Arena conversion Is there anyone here who knows how long it takes to convert say an ice hockey surface to a basketball floor? I'm just thinking about Cardiff and Viola Arena. Perhaps the owners of the Devils could create a Multisport team and have a Cardiff Devils basketball team. Then again someone would need to ask the question. I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that but it does seem like a lot of work. If a new BBL team was launched in Cardiff I think the Sport Wales National Centre would be the most convenient place to start. Then look for a bigger venue once demand for tickets has grown. |
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Post by chesterdonnelly on Dec 1, 2020 18:17:19 GMT
Question RE: Arena conversion Is there anyone here who knows how long it takes to convert say an ice hockey surface to a basketball floor? I'm just thinking about Cardiff and Viola Arena. Perhaps the owners of the Devils could create a Multisport team and have a Cardiff Devils basketball team. Then again someone would need to ask the question. I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that but it does seem like a lot of work. If a new BBL team was launched in Cardiff I think the Sport Wales National Centre would be the most convenient place to start. Then look for a bigger venue once demand for tickets has grown. It seems that it exactly what the Celtic Dragons Superleague Netball team did. Outgrew the Sport Wales National Centre (1200 seats) and starting playing in the Viola Arena. It makes sense for a Cardiff BBL team to follow the same path. Good call. Cardiff has the required venues. |
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