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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 8:02:12 GMT
The more competitive we make junior basketball at local level the better the standard/participation at National League Level.. I would also stagger the age groups so that it sits at local level: U11 u13 u15 u17 filling the void in the JNBL I'd agree with all of that. But the age groups are a bit arbitrary, anyway. My daughter is currently U-9, if she'd been born nine hours later she'd be U-8 (luckily we stretched her from the day she arrived so it's not an issue). Obviously you have to have cut-off points, but the real key is ensuring there's enough basketball for every kid who wants to play to get the chance to |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 12, 2016 8:09:15 GMT
The more competitive we make junior basketball at local level the better the standard/participation at National League Level.. I would also stagger the age groups so that it sits at local level: U11 u13 u15 u17 filling the void in the JNBL I'd agree with all of that. But the age groups are a bit arbitrary, anyway. My daughter is currently U-9, if she'd been born nine hours later she'd be U-8 (luckily we stretched her from the day she arrived so it's not an issue). Obviously you have to have cut-off points, but the real key is ensuring there's enough basketball for every kid who wants to play to get the chance to I've noticed that lots of kids mix and match agegroups. I'm not sure if there are supposed to be set days or times for under 12s and under 14s tbh as our club always seems to avoid clashes so some players can do both. (its probably more because we have the same coach for both teams thinking about it) What's basketball like at your schools? Our school plays in county cup and National Schools Cup and always lots happening as the kids who play National League play as many as 3 agegroups in that. |
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Post by faz on Feb 12, 2016 8:26:32 GMT
My lad goes to a school in the Wirral and although very competitive in most sports basketball isn't one of them. He's the only one who plays outside of school so they don't enter the national cup. For a school to be competitive you either need a very keen and capable coach or a lot of kids op laying national league attending the same school. This happened with Bridgewater in Warrington winning the national cup 3 years on the  from years 9to 11 I think. Wire tend to have a lot of kids attend there and the current under 13 s have at least 10 kids at that school. Phoenix traditionally recruit from Helsby where there is a keen teacher, their under 14 s pretty much all go there |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 12, 2016 8:41:43 GMT
My lad goes to a school in the Wirral and although very competitive in most sports basketball isn't one of them. He's the only one who plays outside of school so they don't enter the national cup. For a school to be competitive you either need a very keen and capable coach or a lot of kids op laying national league attending the same school. This happened with Bridgewater in Warrington winning the national cup 3 years on the from years 9to 11 I think. Wire tend to have a lot of kids attend there and the current under 13 s have at least 10 kids at that school. Phoenix traditionally recruit from Helsby where there is a keen teacher, their under 14 s pretty much all go there Yes 100 per cent it's down to the school having a keen basketball coach as a teacher We are very lucky in that respect I keep expecting another school to turn up and play us with lots of National League players but not happened yet Must be coming soon! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 9:31:44 GMT
I'd agree with all of that. But the age groups are a bit arbitrary, anyway. My daughter is currently U-9, if she'd been born nine hours later she'd be U-8 (luckily we stretched her from the day she arrived so it's not an issue). Obviously you have to have cut-off points, but the real key is ensuring there's enough basketball for every kid who wants to play to get the chance to
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- from Hersey (deleted the quotes) Made even more arbitrary when the RPCs and National Teams are selected on year of birth, not school year! Does anyone know if this mismatch between league structure and National team structure happens in other countries?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 10:40:39 GMT
I don't think so. Several (7?) years ago EB tried to go to year of birth to aid the national teams. The clubs went absolutely mad about it. The AGM became about that one issue, teams threatened to withdraw and EB folded. Personally (and because my kids have July and Aug birthdays) I think the bullet needs to be bitten - short term pain for long term gain. I guess local leagues - which are about participation - could continue to use school years.
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Post by connors on Feb 12, 2016 14:23:16 GMT
PE Teachers who play basketball are like rocking horse poo in my experience. Only ever met one and he was the one who got me playing at age 15.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 12, 2016 15:43:22 GMT
PE Teachers who play basketball are like rocking horse poo in my experience. Only ever met one and he was the one who got me playing at age 15. My son's school teacher won a coach of the year award a couple of years ago in Leicestershire. His passion for basketball knows no bounds. He coaches teams 3 times a week at least for National League He covers two agegroups matches at weekends at least so is out all day sat and sun with them as his other kids train if they don't have matches He has 4 morning sessions of training from 7.30am to 8.30am before school 4 lunchtime sessions at school so has no lunchbreak 5 afternoons a week he has basketball friendlies for all the ages and genders at the school He often has to ref the matches as well as coach He gets nothing extra for all this. It's all voluntary. Young guy very passionate. His name is Coach Giga if anybody bumps into him. He deserves an MBE or something tbh!! The kids are incredibly lucky to have him Forgot to say he also goes and helps the local primary schools teachers coach basketball so that the kids who join his secondary school have a head start when they arrive Good job he doesn't have any kids of his own yet and he has a very understanding girlfriend! (she's the school netball coach so that helps I guess!) |
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Skytree95
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Post by Skytree95 on Feb 12, 2016 17:31:47 GMT
Could somebody tell me what the age groups are for Boy's Basketball England competition at the moment?
I heard there were some changes a few year back but I'm not exactly sure whether they amounted to anything.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 12, 2016 17:35:12 GMT
Could somebody tell me what the age groups are for Boy's Basketball England competition at the moment? I heard there were some changes a few year back but I'm not exactly sure whether they amounted to anything. 12s 14s 16s 18s now |
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Post by faz on Feb 12, 2016 18:43:21 GMT
National league is under 14s, 16s and 18s. All have premier an development leagues. In reality you won't get too many 13s playing in th premier 14s. So the development leagues tend to be the weaker under 14s and under13s.
EB proposed an under 12s but proposed half court games no points and no fouls. There were no takers. I would expect a revised 12s structure next year. Previously it had been un der 13s, 14s, 15, 16s and 18s with the 16s and 18s having premier leagues. Go onto English basketball website and you'll see the structures an teams this year and historically.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 12, 2016 18:57:31 GMT
National league is under 14s, 16s and 18s. All have premier an development leagues. In reality you won't get too many 13s playing in th premier 14s. So the development leagues tend to be the weaker under 14s and under13s. EB proposed an under 12s but proposed half court games no points and no fouls. There were no takers. I would expect a revised 12s structure next year. Previously it had been un der 13s, 14s, 15, 16s and 18s with the 16s and 18s having premier leagues. Go onto English basketball website and you'll see the structures an teams this year and historically. As 12s we seem to have tournaments involving 3 teams every month. I assumed it was under some national structure but maybe not? We play west Herts, east Herts, Northampton, coventry, other leicester teams etc. Playing normal basketball not half court and with fouls etc |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 12, 2016 18:59:57 GMT
National league is under 14s, 16s and 18s. All have premier an development leagues. In reality you won't get too many 13s playing in th premier 14s. So the development leagues tend to be the weaker under 14s and under13s. EB proposed an under 12s but proposed half court games no points and no fouls. There were no takers. I would expect a revised 12s structure next year. Previously it had been un der 13s, 14s, 15, 16s and 18s with the 16s and 18s having premier leagues. Go onto English basketball website and you'll see the structures an teams this year and historically. As 12s we seem to have tournaments involving 3 teams every month. I assumed it was under some national structure but maybe not? We play west Herts, east Herts, Northampton, coventry, other leicester teams etc. Playing normal basketball not half court and with fouls etc Also first match we played a team didn't have ten men and had ten points deducted from their score so it must be under some official rules for that yo have happened? Rather than just friendlies? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 19:41:41 GMT
At U12, it seems clubs have voluntarily come together to form central venue league type competitions at a regional level. Leeds organise a very well attended monthly tournament in Yorkshire and irf attends similar in Midlands. These competitions will be of varying degrees of formality and aren't nationally supported by BE.
There is a 'mini-league' movement for u12s. It is particularly strong in Notts and Midlands with a well developed set of regulations (possibly running on a FIBA model??). IRF - sounds like rules you may be following. For those of us old enough to remember, runs along the lines of the old passarelle rules.
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 13, 2016 8:23:18 GMT
At U12, it seems clubs have voluntarily come together to form central venue league type competitions at a regional level. Leeds organise a very well attended monthly tournament in Yorkshire and irf attends similar in Midlands. These competitions will be of varying degrees of formality and aren't nationally supported by BE. There is a 'mini-league' movement for u12s. It is particularly strong in Notts and Midlands with a well developed set of regulations (possibly running on a FIBA model??). IRF - sounds like rules you may be following. For those of us old enough to remember, runs along the lines of the old passarelle rules. The teams have to have at least ten players and five different players play first two quarters Other than that pretty normal rules I seem to think Can't remember if they have to play half court defence or not as they've played a few friendlies since but there's definitely something official going on somewhere in amongst the weeks we have friendlies |
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Post by interestedridersfan on Feb 20, 2016 19:14:03 GMT
my son has played national league for several years now. the games all used to be within a reasonable distance until last year. last year his team traveled from Leicester to Newcastle, in a old minibus. as a parent i like to support our team and travel with them as much as possible but last season a lot of teams pulled out of the league due to travel costs and distance of other teams. i appreciate we need the league to be competitive, but not many parents are willing to give up a whole day at the weekend for basketball. Here in a nutshell is why elite Junior Basketball should be played on a national basis. The best teams play each other whatever the location. If that does not suit you then play local league and do not enter national competitions. Parents are a major factor in lowering standards because they have an interest in their child, not the progress of the game. Of course parent help is needed but not to the detriment of a club or the game.
No coincidence that the same few programmes win everything year after year because they are prepared to do whatever it takes, not what is convenient. Kids and parents know this when they sign up. In fact it is possibly because of this that they sign up.
I'd be interested to know who the most successful British basketball players have been over the years and how much they were shaped by being coached at elite basketball clubs and how much they were shaped by parents and /or other influences I am aware of one of the best talents in Junior basketball currently having been taken age 14 from Leicester to train and study full time with Real Madrid And my gut instinct is he has more chance of becoming a serious top level basketball player as a result There's probably a limit to what level a junior can reach staying in British Leagues and so suggesting parents just trust a club to do the best for the kid in GB would IMO limit the opportunities or level a special player might be able to attain That's just my opinion on based on what I've seen in other sports with elite juniors The ones who become seriously successful more often than not aren't just left in the hands of grassroots club coaches and their parents or someone else in their life has to push them on to the next level or gain opportunities for him I don't doubt what you say does apply to 95 per cent of juniors who are only at the level to aspire to being just the best in GB |
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Post by faz on Feb 20, 2016 21:24:35 GMT
Queerly is possibly an exception but for most the players development partway would be:
Junior club to 16
A levels at a basketball college such as Berking. Charnwood or mysecorough
Then hopefully a scholarship Iin the states,
Didn't mean you'll make a decent living out of basketball though. There are so every average players in the collegiate system. Regardless cheaper education and what should be a great experience.
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Post by TheTruth on Feb 20, 2016 22:08:51 GMT
The best thing that could be done for junior national league basketball is to improve the level of refereeing, which in my experience this year has been the lowest for a long time. I think a Level 2 is too easy to get and then the refs are just thrown into national league competition without support and mentoring. I would love to know if any of them have to re-accredit. The amount of bad decisions on real basic basketball rules knowledge has been shocking. And it affects the quality of the game massively. Especially when a player does exactly what is asked of them and by the book but an incompetent ref has other ideas.
It would be great to have neutral appointments but this is probably too much for the governing body to administer.
I coach at u14. Another thing would be to get rid of the Areas of Emphasis and guidelines on screens and pressing. Every team we have come across this year has just ignored it and pretty much run pick and roll the whole game. Either make it a rule (and clearly define it) so it has to be done or get rid of it.
Other than that the league has been quite competitive with good games without the massive blowouts of previous seasons.
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Post by faz on Feb 20, 2016 22:36:12 GMT
Truth which league do you coach in. Partially agree with the refs though there is without doubt areas of home bias. however have seen some good ones as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 14:27:50 GMT
It would be great to have neutral appointments but this is probably too much for the governing body to administer. If the national association can't organise refs for games played in their competitions, perhaps they shouldn't be organising those competitions. When I became Chief Supreme Leader at Leopards (I've tired of the GM title) I was amazed to discover that we organised our own table officials. it's open to abuse. |
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