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Post by isthaturinal on Apr 21, 2020 10:25:18 GMT
Has anybody been watching the Series The Last Dance on Netflix, the first two episodes are available now, it’s a 10 part series,
This docuseries gives a definitive account of Michael Jordan’s career and the 1990s Chicago Bulls, packed with unaired footage from the 1997-98 season.
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Post by Midlander on Apr 21, 2020 10:45:01 GMT
First two are excellent. Great insight to what went on. Jordan is the GOAT but doesn't he know it
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 11:56:00 GMT
I've loved it, can't wait for episode 10 to see if they manage to win the championship
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Post by notoriousbigz on Apr 21, 2020 12:01:56 GMT
Jordan is the GOAT but doesn't he know it Yes. He. Does.
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Post by ko25 on Apr 21, 2020 12:08:49 GMT
I've loved it, can't wait for episode 10 to see if they manage to win the championship I'm not sure, do you think they will?
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Post by blueskies99 on Apr 21, 2020 12:49:37 GMT
Loved the first two episodes. Looking forward to the next installments.
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Post by connors on Apr 21, 2020 15:30:51 GMT
Loved them. Awesome
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Post by SamH on Apr 21, 2020 22:22:11 GMT
Yes, superb stuff. Great to see the early footage from college and joining the NBA. Made his mark by game 3, classic.
He does know he's the GOAT but I don't think he's ever actually come out and said it? Not like Muhammad Ali anyway! Must be hard not to be at least a bit arrogant when you've been as successful as that I guess. The fact he's still the highest paid athlete from endorsements, merch, etc each year so long after his retirement is telling.
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Post by connors on Apr 22, 2020 11:24:58 GMT
Always amazes me people would be surprised that Jordan was at times arrogant, petulant and a brutal team mate. I doubt there are any elite sports people that are not those things at times or a lot of the time.
Doesn’t make the, bad people. Just exceptional difficult sometimes for those of us mortals who don’t share their single minded devotion!
If the next 8 episodes are as good as the first two we are in for a treat. The amount of current NBA stars tweeting about it was telling. They know who the goat is....
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Post by SamH on Apr 22, 2020 18:32:16 GMT
It was interesting to see all that stuff about Pippen too, I didn't know he'd held out on his surgery because of issues with management. I also cant understand why Jerry Krause was so determined to blow it all up - that didn't exactly go too well for him did it, the Bulls were an absolute joke for years after the dynasty and haven't really ever done much since. I also was shocked to see Pip was only the 122nd highest paid player in the league! He is often forgotten but I remember discussing who the new best player in the league was after Jordan retired, and it was a group of guys who you could make the case for - Malone, Olajuwon, Shaq, Hill - and Pippen was in the mix too. Definitely top 10 at least for most of his career.
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Post by connors on Apr 22, 2020 19:41:51 GMT
Pippen was a great player and I don’t use that word lightly. Brilliant defender, talented scorer, great passer and very good rebounder. Despite all that his greatest talent was wing willing to play second fiddle to the greatest ever player.
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Post by SamH on Apr 23, 2020 11:36:30 GMT
And I think that was backed up in 1994 when without Jordan, the Bulls were still a very good team and had a playoff run, with Pippen leading them. Obviously you can't lose Jordan and not experience a negative impact but they were still a really good team. Whereas look at the Cavs the moment LeBron left because they didn't have an elite 2nd guy (Kevin Love nowhere near that level). I guess they did lose Kyrie too but actually you could also say the first time LeBron left, the Cavs went to hell for 4 years as they had no one else.
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Post by connors on Apr 23, 2020 20:31:28 GMT
Losing Lebron and Kyrie is more like losing Jordan and Pippen!
Neither are quite as good as Jordan and Pippen respectively but they were just as important to that Cavs team
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Post by SamH on May 5, 2020 23:40:54 GMT
Still loving this series, it's really informative as well as nostalgic. What I'm interested in is the view of young people who didn't see MJ play and maybe hadn't seen much footage of him before this. What's their opinion on the game, the typically low scores, the physicality. And what's their opinion on mj himself, how he compares with lebron.
Personally I see all these highlights combined with the absolute determination to win at all cost, I just can't make a case to say LeBron is at his level. Sometimes over the years I've definitely thought perhaps what LeBron was doing on the court was eclipsing Jordan but all these highlights are saying to me no, for all his greatness LeBron isn't quite there. And he's got to be the nearest we've seen since MJ retired, surely.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 1:05:00 GMT
Hes the only player who got told to play another sport and treat it as a suspension.
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Post by Colicab85 on May 6, 2020 6:58:25 GMT
I think it’s a case of Lebron is probably more talented than MJ but he is not a better player.
The drive, intensity and clutch makes MJ the GOAT. Plus being probably the second most talented player ever after Lebron.
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Post by connors on May 6, 2020 7:33:51 GMT
A non basketball playing friend asked me recently if Lebron was better than Jordan and i said no but he should’ve been. His physical tools and his talent for the game should have given him the edge......ironically though it is the relative (and I stress relative!) lack of edge compared to Jordan that separates them.
I also don’t buy that Jordan’s sabbatical was a deal done with stern to diffuse the various gambling stories etc. I’m not saying those involved were too honest to do it but I think it was more like a burn out after years in the glaring spotlight culminating in his fathers death.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 8:10:34 GMT
The last dance is just exposing Jordan to be a selfish person who didnt care about anyone. His whole Republican buy sneakers too comment is incredibly offensive. The issue is the MJ fan boys that 80% havent watched a game since 1998 anyway just see him as untouchable so it's pointless debating with them.
End of the day Lebron is a far superior basketball player than MJ. There is no debate on it. The issue is MJ knew how to win and was a far greater winner than him. We judge of wins not on talent, a bit like the MVP is very rarely the most valuable player, more the superstar who needs to have it to push their agenda. The fact that Lebron once averaged a 40 point triple double in the finals and they gave the MVP to guy who was guarding him says it all.
The G.O.A.T is Magic tho
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Post by youngrocks on May 6, 2020 10:13:03 GMT
Mrtall probanly the first time ive disagreed with you. Im a huge LeBron fan... actually currently wearing a cleveland hwc night Jersey with his name on it.
This whole documentary shows me that yeah jordan may be selfish but its his determination to win at all cost. If a team mate doesn't like that well there's the door. Lebron has all the tools that MJ has but lacks that killer blow. Teams don't play as physical now and some of the plays mj had under pressure LeBron couldn't do. All superstars need a support cast and thats maybe the reason kobe doesn't get the same look in (shaq, gasol) all spring to mind.
I'm really enjoying it. Eye opening coverage for back then. Impressive insight from espn. The press scrutiny he was under was ridiculous, burn out was always inevitable but probably the first global sports star transferable through many cultures?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 10:32:27 GMT
If you've only disagreed with me once I'm shocked, I talk a lot of **** ha ha. I didnt mean necessarily team mates, not going up against the man who wants to re segregate schools in your home county tho because he may buy your shoes is a big no no for me.
The whole the league was tougher back then doesnt wash either, it was less skilled and some hard fouls were not called correctly sure but it goes down to the age old myth that times always get easier, they dont, they're just different. If you've got a spare 20 mins heres a great video about all those horrific fouls called in jordans favour against the bad boy pistols on the conference finals
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Post by ko25 on May 6, 2020 14:08:04 GMT
Good find that's one of the more interesting videos I've seen recently particular the last 10mins! t2001
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 14:21:18 GMT
Jxmy really does make some impressive nba videos
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Post by connors on May 6, 2020 17:57:12 GMT
Mr Tall. I disagree with most of that. As a Jordan fan who has watched mountains of NBA and other basketball my view is unchanged.
I think Lebron is an amazing player. I’m fact the NBA is stacked with awesome players of incredible skill at the moment. One thing I do agree on is the overall skill level has improved. Back in 90s the benches were often stacked with muscle to combat the glut of talented bigs around and also clog the lanes against like of Jordan. On the other hand the game was reffed differently and the rules were subtlety different too. Hand checking in particular makes a big difference.
Always amazes me when people act like Jordan’s selfishness is a bit of a revelation. I doubt there is an NBA stat ever who wasn’t to a large degree selfish. He’s just got to the point where he doesn’t give a toss!
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Post by SamH on May 6, 2020 18:28:28 GMT
I also disagree and not for fanboy nostalgia, as I said if anything this has reminded me just how great he really was. Obviously talking about who is better, depends what your measuring stick is. If it's rings, MVPs or finals record then it's Mike. If it's PPG and defensive recognition, it's Mike. If it's being responsible for growing the game as a global sport with mass interest, it's Mike. If it's clutch, determination and driving the very best out of team mates, it's Mike. If it's conference championships, it's LeBron (but even then you look at how weak the east has been most of his career).
The era is different but isn't it more impressive that a guy averaged 35ppg in an era where teams were winning games by scoring 85 points? The pace is quicker now so there are more shots, more scoring opportunities. Do you think Harden could go off like he does now in the 90s? I doubt it. He'd probably average 22-25 a game. So it's fair to assume if MJ played today he could be averaging 40+.
I agree LeBron should have won more than 4 MVPs, but I also think Mike should have won more than 5.
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Post by ko25 on May 6, 2020 18:32:50 GMT
Always amazes me when people act like Jordan’s selfishness is a bit of a revelation. I doubt there is an NBA stat ever who wasn’t to a large degree selfish. He’s just got to the point where he doesn’t give a toss! Tbh being selfish is a key part of basketball at any level as there's the always the point where someone has to decide to score or even tell someone you want the ball.
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