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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 14, 2020 7:01:11 GMT
I'm sure this years budgets will be trimmed considerably IF they actually play, but good to see what they are up against. 2019-20 FIBA Champions League (2nd European level) basketball budgets: 1. Brose Baskets Bamberg €14 million euros ($15.4 million US dollars) 2. AEK Athens €12 million euros ($13.2 million US dollars) 3. Hapoel Jerusalem €10 million euros ($11 million US dollars) 3. Besiktas Istanbul €10 million euros ($11 million US dollars) 3. Bandirma Basket €10 million euros ($11 million US dollars) 3. Turk Telekom Ankara €10 million euros (11 million US dollars) 7. 1939 Canarias €9 million euros ($10 million US dollars) 8. Gaziantep Basket €8.5 million euros ($9.4 million US dollars) 9. SIG Strasbourg Basket €7.6 million euros ($8.4 million US dollars) 10. Nizhny Novgorod €6.5 million euros ($7.2 million US dollars) 10. Basket Zaragoza €6.5 million euros ($7.2 million US dollars) 10. Baskets Bonn €6.5 million euros ($7.2 million US dollars) 13. Dinamo Sassari €6 million euros ($6.6 million US dollars) 13. New Basket Brindisi €6 million euros ($6.6 million US dollars) 15. Pau-Orthez €5.7 million euros ($6.3 million US dollars) 16. Basquet Manresa €5 million euros ($5.5 million US dollars) 16. PAOK Thessaloniki €5 million euros ($5.5 million US dollars) 16. JDA Dijon Basket €5 million euros ($5.5 million US dollars) 16. Peristeri Athens €5 million euros ($5.5 million US dollars) 16. Basket Miraflores Burgos €5 million euros ($5.5 million US dollars) 16. Basketball Nymburk €5 million euros ($5.5 million US dollars) 22. VEF Riga €4.5 million euros ($5 million US dollars) 22. Neptunas Klaipeda €4.5 million euros ($5 million US dollars) 22. Hapoel Holon €4.5 million euros ($5 million US dollars) 25. Oostende €4 million euros ($4.4 million US dollars) 25. Antwerp Giants €4 million euros ($4.4 million US dollars) 25. Rasta Vechta €4 million euros ($4.4 million US dollars) 25. Mornar Bar €4 million euros ($4.4 million US dollars) Bit ignorant of me, given, but where did you find this info? |
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jul 14, 2020 7:45:20 GMT
With Robinson back for two years Lions have taken a big step towards ensuring they'll be tough to beat if we actually get back to playing BBl games. Of course, he'll be an asset in the European games given his experience abroad. An impressive player who is very consistent, has vision, great passing ability and can score at will in some games. He is crucial to Lions' success.
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Post by LTFan on Jul 14, 2020 9:07:09 GMT
I'm sure this years budgets will be trimmed considerably IF they actually play, but good to see what they are up against. 2019-20 FIBA Champions League (2nd European level) basketball budgets: I know this isn't the point of your post, but I've generally considered the FIBA Basketball Champions League the 3rd tier of pan-European competition, below the Euroleague and EuroCup, but above the FIBA Europe Cup. Not sure if that's just me though? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 9:22:05 GMT
same LT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 12:05:58 GMT
I'm sure this years budgets will be trimmed considerably IF they actually play, but good to see what they are up against. 2019-20 FIBA Champions League (2nd European level) basketball budgets: I know this isn't the point of your post, but I've generally considered the FIBA Basketball Champions League the 3rd tier of pan-European competition, below the Euroleague and EuroCup, but above the FIBA Europe Cup. Not sure if that's just me though? Could be argued that Euroleague and Eurocup are same entity and BCL and FIBA Europe Cup are same entity as well with FIBA related competitions being 2nd level. I was trying to illustrate that budgets will be lower and Lions will not have that type of money to compete for players. My overriding view remains that without ticket revenue, budgets will come down substantially when play with fans in attendance resumes, which won’t be this year. Friends of mine in Europe believe the chances of basketball even without fans being played this year is 50% AT BEST!! No chance Lions or BBL for that matter will be playing this year and they are just window dressing imho. I stand by that and am open to logical debate on this point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 12:32:19 GMT
I get the whole budget thing youre talkong about however I don't think you can balance it all on that.
Players like Justin Robinson are on less than half what he could earn in Europe (his words not mine) Ovie was on a very small percentage of what he was on.
Lions have a chance to secure players on a smaller pay scale for that shop window viewing.
I also think those teams are playing to win, are Lions? No, they're playing to compete and get a bigger sponsor ultimately. If they continue to grow by entering their budgets will increase year on year. You need to start somewhere
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 12:56:07 GMT
I get the whole budget thing youre talkong about however I don't think you can balance it all on that. Players like Justin Robinson are on less than half what he could earn in Europe (his words not mine) Ovie was on a very small percentage of what he was on. Lions have a chance to secure players on a smaller pay scale for that shop window viewing. I also think those teams are playing to win, are Lions? No, they're playing to compete and get a bigger sponsor ultimately. If they continue to grow by entering their budgets will increase year on year. You need to start somewhere The MACRO story here is that European basketball is not built on sustainable business models which are now stressed to the breaking point due to Covid. There is a lot less sugar daddies out there and those who are investing will look to make a return. Without TV, ticket revenue and sponsorship, the model fails. On top of that, we are just in the beginning of a pandemic. Everyone, including the NBA is just window dressing and hoping for the best......and that my friend is not a business strategy that will cut through this challenging environment. Wait and see is the more prudent approach and I believe that is where we are heading. No basketball until next year earliest. |
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Post by LTFan on Jul 14, 2020 13:48:09 GMT
I know this isn't the point of your post, but I've generally considered the FIBA Basketball Champions League the 3rd tier of pan-European competition, below the Euroleague and EuroCup, but above the FIBA Europe Cup. Not sure if that's just me though? Could be argued that Euroleague and Eurocup are same entity and BCL and FIBA Europe Cup are same entity as well with FIBA related competitions being 2nd level. I was trying to illustrate that budgets will be lower and Lions will not have that type of money to compete for players. My overriding view remains that without ticket revenue, budgets will come down substantially when play with fans in attendance resumes, which won’t be this year. Friends of mine in Europe believe the chances of basketball even without fans being played this year is 50% AT BEST!! No chance Lions or BBL for that matter will be playing this year and they are just window dressing imho. I stand by that and am open to logical debate on this point. Yes, you could in theory group 'Euroleague & EuroCup' and 'Basketball Champions League & Europe Cup' together given their parent ownership, but I still thing they're generally regarded as 4 competitions. As for your comments on budget, I agree with what mrtall has said and I'd also add that even when you just look at the BBL the teams with the biggest budgets aren't the most successful. Glad you've moved on from the repetitive 'british basketball is crap' posts and are entering into some logical debate on things though. It's a good discussion point you've raised even if I don't completely agree with your view. I do agree that Lions have no chance of actually winning the Basketball Champions League this season though (assuming it actually goes ahead)  |
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Post by LTFan on Jul 14, 2020 13:54:12 GMT
I get the whole budget thing youre talkong about however I don't think you can balance it all on that. Players like Justin Robinson are on less than half what he could earn in Europe (his words not mine) Ovie was on a very small percentage of what he was on. Lions have a chance to secure players on a smaller pay scale for that shop window viewing. I also think those teams are playing to win, are Lions? No, they're playing to compete and get a bigger sponsor ultimately. If they continue to grow by entering their budgets will increase year on year. You need to start somewhere The MACRO story here is that European basketball is not built on sustainable business models which are now stressed to the breaking point due to Covid. There is a lot less sugar daddies out there and those who are investing will look to make a return. Without TV, ticket revenue and sponsorship, the model fails. On top of that, we are just in the beginning of a pandemic. Everyone, including the NBA is just window dressing and hoping for the best......and that my friend is not a business strategy that will cut through this challenging environment. Wait and see is the more prudent approach and I believe that is where we are heading. No basketball until next year earliest. Careful, you're starting to sound like INF. 'European Basketball' is a very generalist phrase though. If you're talking about most of the domestic leagues, especially the BBL, then with significantly reduced TV, ticket and sponsorship money they're absolutely going to struggle to operate. But if you're talking about the Euroleague then outside of the NBA they probably have the best chances of still operating at a profitable basketball league in the world right now. Euroleague and Basketball Champions League get decent TV money/coverage on the continent (which in turn helps sponsorship). Euroleague even gets coverage on NBA TV in the US. |
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Post by saintpat on Jul 14, 2020 19:37:57 GMT
I get the whole budget thing youre talkong about however I don't think you can balance it all on that. Players like Justin Robinson are on less than half what he could earn in Europe (his words not mine) Ovie was on a very small percentage of what he was on. Lions have a chance to secure players on a smaller pay scale for that shop window viewing. I also think those teams are playing to win, are Lions? No, they're playing to compete and get a bigger sponsor ultimately. If they continue to grow by entering their budgets will increase year on year. You need to start somewhere I've not seen Justin say that, it might be true but I've seen him say he was fed up not always getting paid abroad, the fact he's committed for another 2 years suggests that even with Vince's sometimes questionable reputation for paying players, it's not something that's happening to Justin. I'd also question if Ovie was on a 'very small percentage' of what earned in Europe, how much was he on in Europe? If Lions were playing a small percentage, it's suggests he was on a large 6 figure sum. Was he earning over £500,000 a year in Spain? Having seen him play in the BBL, I'd suggest he isn't worth close to that sort of figure! Lions clearly can't compete in budget terms with the figures put in this thread but that doesn't mean they won't be able to put a roster together that can be competitive. Riders were generally competitive even though they didn't win. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 20:00:31 GMT
Justin went in to his wages on a podcast mate, can't remember which one , it was his first season back. Ovie was on 100k I read for murica and he wasn't the most paid player for London last season. His 900k asos deal and sky sports is where he earned his money last year
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Post by saintpat on Jul 14, 2020 20:43:17 GMT
Justin went in to his wages on a podcast mate, can't remember which one , it was his first season back. Ovie was on 100k I read for murica and he wasn't the most paid player for London last season. His 900k asos deal and sky sports is where he earned his money last year He didn't play for even half a season, yet I'd still question your assumption he wasn't Lions highest paid player. The 'facts' you put on here are often inaccurate & I think this is no different. I'm also confident that if he was paid 100k for a whole season for Murica, then his wages at Lions were far from 'a very small percentage'. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 20:46:39 GMT
By no means are what I'm saying facts, I'm sorry if I led anyone to believe that, just calculated estimates from what I've been told from people within organisations and what I've read online.
The small percentage though im intrigued at what percentage of your salary you'd be happy to call a small percentage. If my salary went from 100 to 25 I'd say I now receive a small percentage, wouldnt you?
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Post by samgray on Jul 14, 2020 20:55:42 GMT
He was paid more than 100000 at Murcia
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 20:57:29 GMT
Thanks for the clarification mate
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Post by saintpat on Jul 14, 2020 21:05:40 GMT
Ovie played just 13 games for Lions, he played a whole season for Murcia. I also think he earned more than 25,000 for those 13 games, so I'd say it wasn't a small percentage! But rather like you, I don't have actual facts to back up my assumptions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 21:07:19 GMT
Sam confirmed 500k, so if he got 50k for those 13 games that's still only 10% of his wage, a small.percentage in my eyes
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Post by saintpat on Jul 14, 2020 21:13:08 GMT
Sam confirmed 500k, so if he got 50k for those 13 games that's still only 10% of his wage, a small.percentage in my eyes If he was paid £500,000 then yes, it probably was a small percentage, but that's not the figure we started the conversation with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 21:27:42 GMT
To be honest mate I'm not even sure what conversation we're having. I was talking about how lions budget does give them a less talented squad. Ive talked about their aims and supported them
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 8:01:34 GMT
The MACRO story here is that European basketball is not built on sustainable business models which are now stressed to the breaking point due to Covid. There is a lot less sugar daddies out there and those who are investing will look to make a return. Without TV, ticket revenue and sponsorship, the model fails. On top of that, we are just in the beginning of a pandemic. Everyone, including the NBA is just window dressing and hoping for the best......and that my friend is not a business strategy that will cut through this challenging environment. Wait and see is the more prudent approach and I believe that is where we are heading. No basketball until next year earliest. Careful, you're starting to sound like INF. 'European Basketball' is a very generalist phrase though. If you're talking about most of the domestic leagues, especially the BBL, then with significantly reduced TV, ticket and sponsorship money they're absolutely going to struggle to operate. But if you're talking about the Euroleague then outside of the NBA they probably have the best chances of still operating at a profitable basketball league in the world right now. Euroleague and Basketball Champions League get decent TV money/coverage on the continent (which in turn helps sponsorship). Euroleague even gets coverage on NBA TV in the US. Both Euroleague and FIBA/BCL are not profitable businesses pre pandemic, let alone on a go forward basis. their business model is broken. Teams that compete in those competitions play way too many games (which includes their national competitions), they pay their players way too much, they have no meaning full TV money compared to something like MLS in America (which I think is comparable to basketball in Europe from a business point of view) and they compete in the soccer season for sponsors. Top European basketball is supported by sugar daddy soccer teams and benefactors and are NOTORIOUS for not paying players on time or at all. The Euroleague's main sponsor is Turkish Airways and airlines all over the world are going bankrupt. And then there's this: www.aa.com.tr/en/sports/virus-dealt-basketball-serious-blow-fiba-official/1906446The trend post pandemic will be lower pay, shorter playing seasons and a lot of lower league clubs will go out of business. That's not doom and gloom, that's just market forces. Only the strong will survive, but economics of the European game will change dramatically. |
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Post by number23 on Jul 15, 2020 9:24:55 GMT
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Post by notoriousbigz on Jul 15, 2020 9:30:14 GMT
I reckon London Lions will draw against Lithuanian side Neptunas Klaipeda on Wednesday [br Got this weeks lottery numbers pal? |
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Post by inaminute23 on Jul 15, 2020 9:42:53 GMT
Vince reckons they will have a "sell out" hahahahahah. I think he means he can sell nowt. Even if there were fans, then get ready to don a mask.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 9:45:26 GMT
if it was normal circumstances he probably could sell it out. He did last time a Lithuanian team came over
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Post by inaminute23 on Jul 15, 2020 9:45:58 GMT
He has tweeted it, about 10 mins ago
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