What’s happening at Raiders?

Definitely very bad news for the BBL, and of course the Plymouth players, but whilst I’m no apologist for the league I struggle to see how this is the BBL’s fault. DaveF is spot on with his analysis - whilst the venue may be upping its prices the real issue here is the lack of club-owned arenas and an unsustainable business model. It was widely known last season (and obvious for all to see) that Plymouth’s budget was one of highest - so it’s not credible for the club to put the blame on the Pavillions. I have no direct knowledge, but from the outside it looks like investors with deep pockets who threw a load of cash around, realised that it’s not that easy and then have then scarpered or scaled back leaving everyone in the manure. It’s happened before and will no doubt happen again, unfortunately.

As for worries about clubs who have not announced recruits for next season, many clubs typically do not do so until later in the summer and then drip feed announcements over the 6/8 weeks before the season starts in order to drive ticket sales. I know that is what Newcastle have traditionally done and suspect they will be doing so again this summer.

Your obsession with 777 is both boring and odd. Nothing you've predicted about them has come true

Let's hope they pay up all of last season's suppliers first with their DCMS money. If it's still there!

Pavilions will need to find a way to survive that long for a new club to even have that option

I feel for the Pavilions in the midst of all this

Theyve reduced any costs to Raiders for last season to just expenses only and been abused by the owners who haven't even paid those!

At the same time the owners have the nerve to try and turn the Plymouth public against the venue

That's disgraceful!

But suckers like you lap it up and then have a dig at the venue yourself !

Lol

A few days ago you wrongly claimed the Govt support money that wolves had was supposed to ensure basketball for this season

It wasn't. Wolves used it to be able to complete last season

Why aren't you complaining about Raiders not even paying their suppliers for last season

As far as I can see that's way worse than what wolves have done and potentially fraudulent use of the government support money?

You confuse me with your lack of logic and consistency?


I wonder how many other suppliers the Plymouth owners haven't paid for last season?

Disgraceful abuse of the money they were given

Plymouth have been around forever so this is really bad news. As IRF said I hope they have paid last year's bills. I understood 777 has reached an agreement with the club's but now we are down to 9 that's not a good number for the league. Is it still something to interest investors? Dark days.

I've got a few theories:

1) some clubs got so much income from DCMS and saved so many costs at the same time that they have a surplus from last year and can confidently commit to players as a result

2) theres a plan to get committed believing the further down the line they are Govt will have to bailout for a second time when they say they can't survive without help (it worked last season!)

3) naive belief that income will quickly come back to levels needed

Not sure which one I think is most likely tbh

If I was in the shoes of the owners right now I would be one of the quiet ones waiting to see what develops

But having said that getting committed early last season was proven to work when I considered it naive

Will be interesting few weeks/months ahead

I don’t know anything about the Plymouth area but surely there must be some kind of arena / sports hall they can move into, even if it’s a short term fix.
Remember when Riders were nearly homeless and we ended up in JSCC (John Sandford)
Everyone in the league laughed at our new home with the old wooden benches from Granby Halls and the low roof, let alone the half a million lines on the court,
I loved that place, yes we had a reduced capacity which would have effected the roster, but it was enough for the club to continue.

Like everyone else my heart goes out to the Raiders fans.
Apparently Gareth Murray is chuffed to bits as his Rocks side may just now make the playoffs.

So now we’re two clubs down how many time’s will each club play each other three maybe four.

If they think suitable venues are too expensive in Plymouth wait until they get to Birmingham

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And then there were 9!
Is it time to scrap the bbl as a concept at this moment?

I love what Riders and Eagles have done with their venues but as a league is it sustainable?

Worthing Thunder
Essex Pirates
Mersey Tigers
Durham Wildcats
Birmingham Knights
London Royals
Leeds Force
Worcester Wolves
Plymouth Raiders

As many franchises have withdrawn in the last 10 years as are left in the league!

Real interesting list. Worthing never had a chance as a small seaside town in a very small market but teams from Leeds Liverpool Birmingham London...well if you can't make it work in a major city that's worrying. I know it's much more complicated than that and a hundred other issues are at play but if you had those teams the reach of the league would be much better.

all those franchises have also joined in the last 20 years (most in the last 10) so saying they have withdrawn is bit misleading

Reality is since 1987 the league has had startups and moves anc changes of ownerships and withdrawals. And this is just the continuation of the pattern.

Starting a BBL basketball club takes a hell of a lot of work and a commitment to being in it for the long run, for limited rewards. People who are willing to do this are few and far between (Paul, Russ/Kevin, Vince, the MLS guys, etc). They show it can be done.

The only club in the list above who give doubt to the concept of the league would be Worthing, because they simply couldn't make ends meet. But they were playing in a leisure centre (in what would be called a small market in the NBA) at the far end of the country with increased travel costs as a result (and the fall out from the Bears debacle a few years no doubt wouldnt have helped with sponsorship).

The reality is uni teams are vulnerable to the whim of the uni (durham, Leeds, Worcester).
'Rich man' teams are vulnerable to the whim of the rich man/orgainsation (Mersey, Royals).
Foreign owner teams : pretty clear. (Plymouth)
Start up teams require long term plans (Essex : which was a Tim lewis vehicle) and Birmingham (where the league overreached for the understandable purpose of getting a team in Brum).

A strong 9/10 team league is perfectly sustainable, particularly if we can progress to having 2 or 3 European entrants every year. But the key to that is the people involved, and their commitment to the long term and understanding that profit won't be turned quickly.

Belgium has 10 teams and a v strong league. A 12 team league with 3 unstable franchises may appear better to the punter than just one with 9 stronger franchises. But it would be an illusion.

The tragedy here is that BE has neglected div 1 to such a degree that we have no realistic prospect of getting any clubs from it who have the infrastructure to compete in BBL. (and that includes Solent who are a cross between the 'rich man' and Worthing situations).

The biggest issue in our pro basketball is not the teams from 1-9. Its the gap in organisation, infrastructure, financing etc between team no 1 and team no 15.