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Post by baldeagle on May 9, 2019 11:50:27 GMT
We've never adequately replaced Charles Smith and we've won nothing since he retired. I would have loved to have keot Jukic and Paige from last season but was never likely and are now playing in Spain and France. Seriously - how were we ever going adequately to replace Charles? The reason people hated him so much on here was that he was so good, and had the handy knack of turning it on just when needed. Players like him and Sullivan don't come along very often, and it is to Leicester's credit that they have managed to prosper (despite being poorer) since Sulli hung up his boots. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 12:10:54 GMT
We've never adequately replaced Charles Smith and we've won nothing since he retired. This. Multiplied by 100. |
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retsek
6th Man
Global moderator
Posts: 449
Favourite Team: Sheffield Sharks
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Post by retsek on May 9, 2019 16:00:06 GMT
Seems strange to me that a guy who must surely be one of the club's top earners and chief decision maker is, as far as I can tell, shouldering none of the blame here. Hmm..... why does this sound so very familiar........? Give you a clue. Ltiba Ayons. If that's too subtle I can try again. |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 9, 2019 18:03:00 GMT
How many completely forgettable seasons do Eagles need to string together before anyone dares to imagine that Fab might not actually be doing a particularly brilliant job anymore? This is obviously someone who's earned a long leash but we're talking three, perhaps even four consecutive failures now. Back to back first round playoff eliminations. Back to back seasons without a final appearance never mind a trophy. And a team that hasn't really been relevant in the league race since arguably the last time they won it. Seems strange to me that a guy who must surely one of the club's top earners and chief decision maker is, as far as I can tell, shouldering none of the blame here. Should Riders follow up this admittedly disappointing season with three more like it, I'd be amazed if Rob Paternostro got off so lightly in the court of public opinion. Brutal....but pretty much spot on. The problem is Fab has done so much for Eagles I dont think they could ever sack him. I understand that to be fair. They really could do with him being made a better offer elsewhere though IMO |
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D44
Bench Player
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Post by D44 on May 10, 2019 9:56:37 GMT
Fab isn't above criticism but seems to be more of an issue with player recruitment (and rernention) than coaching.
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Post by notoriousbigz on May 10, 2019 10:09:11 GMT
Fab isn't above criticism but seems to be more of an issue with player recruitment (and rernention) than coaching. The problem you've got with player retention is that the likes of Scott Martin (voted in the top 100 high school graduate players in America) and Jaysean Paige (Big 12 sixth man of the year in his senior year and voted to the second team all big 12) are actually better individual players than the BBL tends to get. They're here to use the league as a gateway to bigger and better things in Europe.
Great while they last over here, but they tend to move on to bigger ponds.
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 10, 2019 12:40:31 GMT
Fab isn't above criticism but seems to be more of an issue with player recruitment (and rernention) than coaching. The problem you've got with player retention is that the likes of Scott Martin (voted in the top 100 high school graduate players in America) and Jaysean Paige (Big 12 sixth man of the year in his senior year and voted to the second team all big 12) are actually better individual players than the BBL tends to get. They're here to use the league as a gateway to bigger and better things in Europe.
Great while they last over here, but they tend to move on to bigger ponds.
They had ongoing success with Brits who were actually US imports effectively weren't they? Fab when he was younger and top quality player, Charles Smith. They could build around that. And back then you didn't need as many players and the opposition wasn't as strong Harder now |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 10, 2019 12:44:34 GMT
Fab isn't above criticism but seems to be more of an issue with player recruitment (and rernention) than coaching. But isn't player recruitment a big part of being a coach? For a while Fab barely had to recruit anyone as he had a settled and quality group including himself He's not going to get that again. If he's not good at recruiting then eagles will keep facing the same issues each year I've also noticed eagles tend to start seasons well and gradually get worse It doesn't suggest the coaching is adding much. Almost the opposite tbh I think Fab is a bit like wenger. Great success for a period of time then runs out of ideas or gets found wanting as the game changes around him? It can't help that he himself used to be a key player who can't deliver to that level at this age That's one extra top quality player he needs to find every season he didn't need before |
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Post by notoriousbigz on May 10, 2019 12:57:19 GMT
The problem you've got with player retention is that the likes of Scott Martin (voted in the top 100 high school graduate players in America) and Jaysean Paige (Big 12 sixth man of the year in his senior year and voted to the second team all big 12) are actually better individual players than the BBL tends to get. They're here to use the league as a gateway to bigger and better things in Europe.
Great while they last over here, but they tend to move on to bigger ponds.
They had ongoing success with Brits who were actually US imports effectively weren't they? Fab when he was younger and top quality player, Charles Smith. They could build around that. And back then you didn't need as many players and the opposition wasn't as strong Harder now The Everton Tigers team that Fab's Eagles beat to the Title back in 2008-2009 went 12 deep (and had no kids who didn't play either), and were better than any Riders team I've seen in the past 10 years, if that's what you're getting at. |
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D44
Bench Player
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Post by D44 on May 10, 2019 12:58:10 GMT
I see Fab as more like Alex Ferguson, a big club on a bit of a downward spiral but I don't see things being better without him, far from it. From what I have heard Fab isn't that involved in recruitment and contracts. He makes his recommendations but that's it. Having said that I don't really know the what goes on behind the scenes. We've tailed off badly the last few seasons due to injuries mostly, compounded by light rosters. We really struggle without Defoe in particular, something which hasnt been addressed for a few seasons now.
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 10, 2019 13:56:06 GMT
I see Fab as more like Alex Ferguson, a big club on a bit of a downward spiral but I don't see things being better without him, far from it. From what I have heard Fab isn't that involved in recruitment and contracts. He makes his recommendations but that's it. Having said that I don't really know the what goes on behind the scenes. We've tailed off badly the last few seasons due to injuries mostly, compounded by light rosters. We really struggle without Defoe in particular, something which hasnt been addressed for a few seasons now. if we can all see all of the above (which we can) then why doesn't Fab and his staff actually address it though |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 10, 2019 13:57:29 GMT
They had ongoing success with Brits who were actually US imports effectively weren't they? Fab when he was younger and top quality player, Charles Smith. They could build around that. And back then you didn't need as many players and the opposition wasn't as strong Harder now The Everton Tigers team that Fab's Eagles beat to the Title back in 2008-2009 went 12 deep (and had no kids who didn't play either), and were better than any Riders team I've seen in the past 10 years, if that's what you're getting at. At one stage at Arsenal Wenger had a team called the invincibles who never lost a game all season. He gradually lost those players and could never replicate again. There is a parallel. which gives me an excuse to post one of the funniest things on YouTube - troops from arsenal fan TV complaining about Wenger and the fact his mum still likes him
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Post by baldeagle on May 10, 2019 16:04:57 GMT
"At one stage at Arsenal Wenger had a team called the invincibles who never lost a game all season. He gradually lost those players and could never replicate again. There is a parallel."
But is the parallel in Newcastle (which should now have access to increased budgets) or Leicester, INF?
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 10, 2019 16:11:11 GMT
"At one stage at Arsenal Wenger had a team called the invincibles who never lost a game all season. He gradually lost those players and could never replicate again. There is a parallel." But is the parallel in Newcastle (which should now have access to increased budgets) or Leicester, INF? If you really want to try and divert from the question of Fab being capable of rebuilding Eagles or not then please please go ahead by talking about Rob And lets have another four years more to match the last four years at eagles Im in |
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Post by stevetheballer on May 10, 2019 21:04:50 GMT
TBF we have won something since Charles retired, the BBL Cup in 2017.
Then it has gone down hill since then, remember that season just fizzling out but then we came good in the playoffs until we met Leicester.
Agree would have liked to have kept onto Jukic and although Paige was very talented don’t think he seemed like a good team player or had the right attitude.
I think with Fab, he’s done so much for the club and Newcastle that if he wants to continue being part of the Eagles then why would we want him to be anywhere else.
Bringing a new coach in is not necessarily the answer either as who’s to say it would work out with them.
I just think that we need the right players to make us win and this season as well as last we just haven’t had that.
Had we had 2 or 3 better players in place of some of the ones we had this season then we could have faired better.
I think if Fab stays with the Eagles then get a team around him that can compete. Fletcher at the point running the team, Kyle Williams with a season under his belt and who improved as the this season went on. Another back up point guard coming or the bench, if Lasker still wants to play then him as well and then Eddie. Then get an athletic small forward who can consistently score along with 2 or 3 bigs as this season we were very small in the front court and I think we struggled to win a lot of games because of that and other teams being bigger.
So a line up of............
Rahmon Fletcher
Eddie Matthew
Kyle Williams
Drew Lasker ?
Small Forward
Power Forward
Power Forward
Darius Dafoe ?
Fab ?
Themba Yabantu
Young Local Player
Young Local Player
Not sure if this will happen or if realistic but if we want to compete with the likes of the Lions, Riders and Royals as well as other teams that are getting better then the team needs strengthening and we are going to need depth on the team.
Hopefully with the new arena and with more income coming into the team then we will have more money to bring in better players to make us a better team. Having spoken to Paul Blake during the season this is certainly what he wants to do so I know this will be very much on his mind and his goal for next season.
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 10, 2019 21:45:48 GMT
TBF we have won something since Charles retired, the BBL Cup in 2017. Then it has gone down hill since then, remember that season just fizzling out but then we came good in the playoffs until we met Leicester. Agree would have liked to have kept onto Jukic and although Paige was very talented don’t think he seemed like a good team player or had the right attitude. I think with Fab, he’s done so much for the club and Newcastle that if he wants to continue being part of the Eagles then why would we want him to be anywhere else. Bringing a new coach in is not necessarily the answer either as who’s to say it would work out with them. I just think that we need the right players to make us win and this season as well as last we just haven’t had that. Had we had 2 or 3 better players in place of some of the ones we had this season then we could have faired better. I think if Fab stays with the Eagles then get a team around him that can compete. Fletcher at the point running the team, Kyle Williams with a season under his belt and who improved as the this season went on. Another back up point guard coming or the bench, if Lasker still wants to play then him as well and then Eddie. Then get an athletic small forward who can consistently score along with 2 or 3 bigs as this season we were very small in the front court and I think we struggled to win a lot of games because of that and other teams being bigger. So a line up of............ Rahmon Fletcher Eddie Matthew Kyle Williams Drew Lasker ? Small Forward Power Forward Power Forward Darius Dafoe ? Fab ? Themba Yabantu Young Local Player Young Local Player Not sure if this will happen or if realistic but if we want to compete with the likes of the Lions, Riders and Royals as well as other teams that are getting better then the team needs strengthening and we are going to need depth on the team. Hopefully with the new arena and with more income coming into the team then we will have more money to bring in better players to make us a better team. Having spoken to Paul Blake during the season this is certainly what he wants to do so I know this will be very much on his mind and his goal for next season. Defoe, fab and Lasker too old now. Two of them injury prone. You need some quality YOUNG Brits. But the wages of those three won't be cheap and are blocking a proper rebuild IMO. |
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Post by massiveridersfan on May 11, 2019 7:43:06 GMT
Can we now please stop prodding Eagles with a sharp stick or this thread is going to come back and bite us on the bum big time. It seems to me that Riders have similar issues and perhaps we need to deal with those before criticising Fab all the time as if everything is rosy in Leicester. If we can retain Washington we'll need a quality import PG alongside him next season. We've seen how Clark has been pretty useless at improving the team - hugely disappointing. He is far from the player he was in his first season with us. Can't understand it because he turns the ball over frequently. That's not a lack of fitness, more a lack of awareness. Lascelles can't shoot, apart from the occasional 3 pointer and Douse doesn't get much court time these days for whatever reasons. We aren't going to be consistently good in offence if we don't have a PG that can do a great job for the team, like Fletcher or Robinson. I'm less bothered by other teams if I know we are capable of turning in consistently good performances ourselves. We've looked decidedly shaky in many games this season, especially in offence. It's only persistently very good defence that's swung many games our way. Eagles' potential spending capability from their arena revenue (better supported than Riders in numbers terms) may swing the balance of power back their way. Moreover, if Lions can build a bigger fanbase/get more sponsorship then they'll be a force to be reckoned with again next season and thereafter.
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Post by stevetino on May 11, 2019 8:15:33 GMT
TBF we have won something since Charles retired, the BBL Cup in 2017. Then it has gone down hill since then, remember that season just fizzling out but then we came good in the playoffs until we met Leicester. Agree would have liked to have kept onto Jukic and although Paige was very talented don’t think he seemed like a good team player or had the right attitude. I think with Fab, he’s done so much for the club and Newcastle that if he wants to continue being part of the Eagles then why would we want him to be anywhere else. Bringing a new coach in is not necessarily the answer either as who’s to say it would work out with them. I just think that we need the right players to make us win and this season as well as last we just haven’t had that. Had we had 2 or 3 better players in place of some of the ones we had this season then we could have faired better. I think if Fab stays with the Eagles then get a team around him that can compete. Fletcher at the point running the team, Kyle Williams with a season under his belt and who improved as the this season went on. Another back up point guard coming or the bench, if Lasker still wants to play then him as well and then Eddie. Then get an athletic small forward who can consistently score along with 2 or 3 bigs as this season we were very small in the front court and I think we struggled to win a lot of games because of that and other teams being bigger. So a line up of............ Rahmon Fletcher Eddie Matthew Kyle Williams Drew Lasker ? Small Forward Power Forward Power Forward Darius Dafoe ? Fab ? Themba Yabantu Young Local Player Young Local Player Not sure if this will happen or if realistic but if we want to compete with the likes of the Lions, Riders and Royals as well as other teams that are getting better then the team needs strengthening and we are going to need depth on the team. Hopefully with the new arena and with more income coming into the team then we will have more money to bring in better players to make us a better team. Having spoken to Paul Blake during the season this is certainly what he wants to do so I know this will be very much on his mind and his goal for next season. Defoe, fab and Lasker too old now. Two of them injury prone. You need some quality YOUNG Brits. But the wages of those three won't be cheap and are blocking a proper rebuild IMO. Early bird season tickets deadline already looming with no idea of next years roster/personnel |
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Post by baldeagle on May 11, 2019 9:04:29 GMT
To be fair, Stevetino, it's never been any different. Eagles have never made player announcements early.
I'd rather have a strong team, with no brothers, announced late than a weak team signed up too soon.
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Post by stevetino on May 11, 2019 9:09:54 GMT
To be fair, Stevetino, it's never been any different. Eagles have never made player announcements early. I'd rather have a strong team, with no brothers, announced late than a weak team signed up too soon. For sure |
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Post by massiveridersfan on May 11, 2019 9:22:28 GMT
Defoe, fab and Lasker too old now. Two of them injury prone. You need some quality YOUNG Brits. But the wages of those three won't be cheap and are blocking a proper rebuild IMO. Early bird season tickets deadline already looming with no idea of next years roster/personnel Same most places I expect - renewed mine but no idea who will be on our roster. Pretty common I expect throughout the BBL. |
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tigger
Bench Player
Posts: 125 
Favourite Team: Newcastle Eagles
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Post by tigger on May 11, 2019 10:43:38 GMT
Can we now please stop prodding Eagles with a sharp stick or this thread is going to come back and bite us on the bum big time. It seems to me that Riders have similar issues and perhaps we need to deal with those before criticising Fab all the time as if everything is rosy in Leicester. If we can retain Washington we'll need a quality import PG alongside him next season. We've seen how Clark has been pretty useless at improving the team - hugely disappointing. He is far from the player he was in his first season with us. Can't understand it because he turns the ball over frequently. That's not a lack of fitness, more a lack of awareness. Lascelles can't shoot, apart from the occasional 3 pointer and Douse doesn't get much court time these days for whatever reasons. We aren't going to be consistently good in offence if we don't have a PG that can do a great job for the team, like Fletcher or Robinson. I'm less bothered by other teams if I know we are capable of turning in consistently good performances ourselves. We've looked decidedly shaky in many games this season, especially in offence. It's only persistently very good defence that's swung many games our way. Eagles' potential spending capability from their arena revenue (better supported than Riders in numbers terms) may swing the balance of power back their way. Moreover, if Lions can build a bigger fanbase/get more sponsorship then they'll be force to be reckoned with again next season and thereafter. But INF is the new Retsek......what will he do if he's not spending all summer being Fab and Eagles obsessed.  Whilst entertaining Eagles fans on here! Spoilsport MassiveRidersFan  |
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Post by interestedridersfan on May 11, 2019 15:12:12 GMT
Can we now please stop prodding Eagles with a sharp stick or this thread is going to come back and bite us on the bum big time. It seems to me that Riders have similar issues and perhaps we need to deal with those before criticising Fab all the time as if everything is rosy in Leicester. If we can retain Washington we'll need a quality import PG alongside him next season. We've seen how Clark has been pretty useless at improving the team - hugely disappointing. He is far from the player he was in his first season with us. Can't understand it because he turns the ball over frequently. That's not a lack of fitness, more a lack of awareness. Lascelles can't shoot, apart from the occasional 3 pointer and Douse doesn't get much court time these days for whatever reasons. We aren't going to be consistently good in offence if we don't have a PG that can do a great job for the team, like Fletcher or Robinson. I'm less bothered by other teams if I know we are capable of turning in consistently good performances ourselves. We've looked decidedly shaky in many games this season, especially in offence. It's only persistently very good defence that's swung many games our way. Eagles' potential spending capability from their arena revenue (better supported than Riders in numbers terms) may swing the balance of power back their way. Moreover, if Lions can build a bigger fanbase/get more sponsorship then they'll be force to be reckoned with again next season and thereafter. But INF is the new Retsek......what will he do if he's not spending all summer being Fab and Eagles obsessed. Whilst entertaining Eagles fans on here! Spoilsport MassiveRidersFan Like I say I'm "Fab in" I will defend him to the hilt whilst all you Eagles fans try to engineer a way out of the club without sacking him scenario He's good for Riders |
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Post by stevetino on May 12, 2019 9:55:14 GMT
All you eagles fans?? 🤔🤔
Not sure on that statement INF
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 13:44:10 GMT
The problem you've got with player retention is that the likes of Scott Martin (voted in the top 100 high school graduate players in America) and Jaysean Paige (Big 12 sixth man of the year in his senior year and voted to the second team all big 12) are actually better individual players than the BBL tends to get. They're here to use the league as a gateway to bigger and better things in Europe.
Great while they last over here, but they tend to move on to bigger ponds.
They had ongoing success with Brits who were actually US imports effectively weren't they? Fab when he was younger and top quality player, Charles Smith. They could build around that. And back then you didn't need as many players and the opposition wasn't as strong Harder now You've made the claim before that the BBL is better than it used to be without being able to back it up. I know you weren't there, but the Bullets, Leopards, Towers, Sharks and Giants teams of 20 or so years ago would dominate the current BBL |
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Whilst entertaining Eagles fans on here! 