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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 10:45:22 GMT
There's not really a way around that. Clearly the owners of the Raiders BBL franchise aren't going to sell to the new guy. Or if they are it's going to financially cripple the new organisation and/or take so long that you don't play this season.
It mattered a lot to us to be called Leopards, but I can't see you managing to pull the same stunt we did & we wouldn't have got away with it if we'd entered a new club in the BBL with the name of one who'd just gone on sabbatical. Giants were long gone by the times their namesakes appeared.
This has happened quite a lot in football; Aldershot, Halifax, Chester (ironic), Nuneaton, Telford etc. Their fans seem to get over it pretty quickly. Some of the weirder ones don't ever acknowledge it happened.
In reality we kept the name, you've kept BBL status. We'd have preferred to have both. But we never forgot the old Leopards and I doubt you'll ever forget the Raiders.
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Post by everard on Aug 10, 2021 11:11:51 GMT
When the original Giants were bought out by United didn't the fans set up Stockport Giants playing in lower division. Bit more difficult when you want to retain the Plymouth name though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 13:36:18 GMT
There's not really a way around that. Clearly the owners of the Raiders BBL franchise aren't going to sell to the new guy. Or if they are it's going to financially cripple the new organisation and/or take so long that you don't play this season. It mattered a lot to us to be called Leopards, but I can't see you managing to pull the same stunt we did & we wouldn't have got away with it if we'd entered a new club in the BBL with the name of one who'd just gone on sabbatical. Giants were long gone by the times their namesakes appeared. This has happened quite a lot in football; Aldershot, Halifax, Chester (ironic), Nuneaton, Telford etc. Their fans seem to get over it pretty quickly. Some of the weirder ones don't ever acknowledge it happened. In reality we kept the name, you've kept BBL status. We'd have preferred to have both. But we never forgot the old Leopards and I doubt you'll ever forget the Raiders. I think you're missing the point Hearsay. From what I've read, the Plymouth Raiders have been around since 1983 ( well before I was born) and in the BBL for 25 years. That's a long time and a pretty big deal for those who went on the journey with that team. Also, the new owner was a sponsor of the Raiders. To casually brush off its relevance to its fans as " oh well at least you still have basketball in Plymouth" is a bit arrogant and naive. And the fact that the rebrand is rushed, with no certainty of venue after this season and no sponsorship visa for foreign players appears very unprofessional. So the new owner (and the BBL) think that there is so much demand and strength of the BBL brand in that market that fans will just turn up, pay money and support a new setup just because basketball is on again? Taking fans for granted I think! What incentives are they offering new fans to support a new team during a pandemic in a venue that will most certainly change next season? They would have to pay me to come and see this fiasco!! Absolutely no chance of season ticket revenue or sponsor revenue. So this new guy is willing to burn cash freely??? Wow! |
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Post by blackdiamond on Aug 10, 2021 13:43:07 GMT
I have no doubt Plymouth fans will support the new team, even though the results are not likely to be great to begin with. I speak as someone who has been actively supporting Raiders since 1996, well before they entered the BBL.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 13:55:01 GMT
I have no doubt Plymouth fans will support the new team, even though the results are not likely to be great to begin with. I speak as someone who has been actively supporting the team since 1996, well before they entered the BBL. Well I guess the quantifiable proof will be found in who turns up and what they pay during the second leg of a pandemic, with no star players (or Americans for that matter). I can smell that cash burning........ |
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Post by Raidersfan on Aug 10, 2021 14:28:28 GMT
I got very emotional when the raiders fell apart. I’ve experienced a team relocation before abs that hurt ( San Diego chargers to LA…. Think I even cried hahaha) but this was savage, I felt like a relationship had ended. Anyway, I’m super pleased we have basketball back in the south, however it feels so tainted…. It’s not the raiders, it’s not the history, the bad and poor seasons, it’s just…. A team in Plymouth, I personally hate the name, the logo it’s all so faceless, I will pay to watch mediocre basketball, I’ve paid to watch the raiders lose countless times, more so than wins, but…. Something huge is missing. I’d be worried about investing my money into merch when there’s no evidence to suggest they will even had a court for next season, will the fans truly turn up? Worrying times again,
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Post by connors on Aug 10, 2021 14:50:05 GMT
I became quite a keen TV Tigers fan. Over a period of a few years went to nearly every home game. Then they disappeared. We tried to follow the Heat but it just wasn't the same but a large part of that was it really was not the same! The location, the crowd, everything about it really changed.
With Plymouth I think having basketball in the same location is a big dose of familiarity that will hopefully ease the transition.
Ultimately you are right though. Your club has gone and that's disappointing for all Raiders fans. It seems like many of your fellow Raiders fans are going to try and get behind the new team though so it has a chance!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 15:08:45 GMT
I think you're missing the point Hearsay. What incentives are they offering new fans to support a new team during a pandemic in a venue that will most certainly change next season? They would have to pay me to come and see this fiasco!! Absolutely no chance of season ticket revenue or sponsor revenue. So this new guy is willing to burn cash freely??? Wow! I don't think I am. I've only been in their situation twice. But I think you're tro!!ing again. Yet again. I note you're making more "sky falling in" predictions. Absolutely everything you've claimed is going to happen hasn't. Perhaps you should leave this thread to Plymouth fans and people something about the game in this country. your claim that Raiders were in the BBL for 25 years proves - yet again - that your knowledge is non existent. |
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Post by everard on Aug 10, 2021 15:23:47 GMT
Possibly difference in attitude to teams in UK and USA. Look at football clubs where fans raise thousands to retain/reform clubs or relegated teams and support them at lower level whereas in USA teams move hundreds on miles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 16:32:16 GMT
I think you're missing the point Hearsay. What incentives are they offering new fans to support a new team during a pandemic in a venue that will most certainly change next season? They would have to pay me to come and see this fiasco!! Absolutely no chance of season ticket revenue or sponsor revenue. So this new guy is willing to burn cash freely??? Wow! I don't think I am. I've only been in their situation twice. But I think you're tro!!ing again. Yet again. I note you're making more "sky falling in" predictions. Absolutely everything you've claimed is going to happen hasn't. Perhaps you should leave this thread to Plymouth fans and people something about the game in this country. your claim that Raiders were in the BBL for 25 years proves - yet again - that your knowledge is non existent. So you’ve been in this situation twice? So what, are you going down to Plymouth to sort them out? Stop deflecting and live in the NOW. Two long term teams fold, and the do over in Plymouth is to rush to force a new brand, team, coach etc upon LONG TERM Fans when the corpse of the Raiders is still warm? Classy. And yes, I don’t understand British or European sport as much as you do Hearsay. American teams/leagues don’t fold and rarely change hands. And they make money and increase in value. Soccer in America is way ahead of basketball in the UK because?  Proper proven management, professionalism and a business model that attracts investment. Lots to learn from I guess. |
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Post by RaidersFan92 on Aug 10, 2021 17:03:18 GMT
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Post by raiders92 on Aug 10, 2021 17:19:38 GMT
Personally I think the raiders can replicate the old vibe I'm guessing the cheerleaders would still perform and foxy would get a new costume and chris would still perform!! |
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ant88
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Post by ant88 on Aug 10, 2021 17:21:23 GMT
What makes you think PJ Is on a shoestring ? We all know the budget isn’t going to be what it was last season but if we can sign quality British players and bring in some American players with dual nationality’s I’m sure the team will be competitive
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Post by billybob on Aug 10, 2021 17:34:21 GMT
Come on, where are they going to get the money to be anything other than a shoestring? No sponsors in place, expensive pavilions, no experience in running a club (GM is leaving), i cant imagine PJ will be anything less than expensive, I dont think the owner really knows what he's let himself in for.
And PJ is well known as a pretty awful recruiter when money is tight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 17:37:32 GMT
So you’ve been in this situation twice? So what, are you going down to Plymouth to sort them out? Stop deflecting and live in the NOW. Two long term teams fold, and the do over in Plymouth is to rush to force a new brand, team, coach etc upon LONG TERM Fans when the corpse of the Raiders is still warm? Classy. And yes, I don’t understand British or European sport as much as you do Hearsay. American teams/leagues don’t fold and rarely change hands. And they make money and increase in value. Soccer in America is way ahead of basketball in the UK because? Proper proven management, professionalism and a business model that attracts investment. Lots to learn from I guess. Calm down. What am I deflecting? I'm not living in the past, but I can't tell you what I'm going to learn in the future. Even you and your massive amount of experience of sports management can't do that. American sport is littered with failed leagues/teams below the top level. Before the D-League came along, even the second tier was an absolute mess. The ABA (pre "merger") had plenty of fatalities. It's not any different in the other sports Americans consider "theirs". But the fact you apparently don't know that casts yet more doubt on who "you" really are. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 17:38:28 GMT
Come on, where are they going to get the money to be anything other than a shoestring? No sponsors in place, expensive pavilions, no experience in running a club (GM is leaving), i cant imagine PJ will be anything less than expensive, I dont think the owner really knows what he's let himself in for. And PJ is well known as a pretty awful recruiter when money is tight. Absolutely spot on here mate |
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Post by billybob on Aug 10, 2021 17:46:23 GMT
When was the last time that the BBL had 75% control of one of the teams in the league? According to Companies House, PB 2021 Ltd, has two directors - Carl Heslop amd Andy Webb. The BBL office is the clubs registered address, and according to their Confirmation Statement, the BBL has 75% of voting rights for the club. How does that work?! Surely thats a conflict of interests? How does the league control so much of one club when theyre responsible for the running of the league? Is the BBL going to be responsible for short falls in money for the club as well? find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13550348/filing-historyMaybe its a standard thing that all clubs have, but never seen it mentioned on here before.. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 18:26:44 GMT
Surrey I believe we're half owned when they became scorchers and Phoenix as well, I think its a short term role to safeguard the large franchise area. Neither Will profit financially
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Post by billybob on Aug 10, 2021 18:42:36 GMT
Ahh ok.. just seemed a pretty strange way to deal with things.
Long term, I wonder if things will ever come out over what happened, why the massive breakdown in communication and working relationship between the directors resulted in the loss of the Raiders
It's a pretty damning situation. This isnt pointing fingers at people who cant or wont reply, this is purely a question. Just remember Mr Mollard and Mr Mackenzie standing there saying that they will protect the club, and it would seem they did anything but.
Quite why they sought the investment from Turkey has never been answered. I have never been in favour of foreign ownership.. for this exact reason. A club dies, and, they dont seem to care very much.
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Post by RaidersFan92 on Aug 10, 2021 18:43:24 GMT
What makes you think PJ Is on a shoestring ? We all know the budget isn’t going to be what it was last season but if we can sign quality British players and bring in some American players with dual nationality’s I’m sure the team will be competitive Baffling. Of course he will be. What was achieved last year with a massive budget? Most wins in a season... if you think it will be anything other than shoestring then I’ll have what you’re having. |
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Post by Raidersfan on Aug 10, 2021 18:54:55 GMT
Think with the city being so in love with the club, the people need the truth to really what happened to our club, to then even understand how the hell this new expansion team plans to survive when the raiders couldn’t… I hope I am wrong but I don’t see this lasting past this season. I watched the raiders lose 6 games on the spin at home, but we were at least competitive, I fear a totally uncompetitive team won’t put bums on seats. I personally would find it hard to drive 200+ miles to watch the Riders absolutely smash us.
I personally will still wear my green jersey to games this will always be a raiders city
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Post by PointlessMonkey on Aug 10, 2021 19:01:13 GMT
Think with the city being so in love with the club, the people need the truth to really what happened to our club, to then even understand how the hell this new expansion team plans to survive when the raiders couldn’t… I hope I am wrong but I don’t see this lasting past this season. I watched the raiders lose 6 games on the spin at home, but we were at least competitive, I fear a totally uncompetitive team won’t put bums on seats. I personally would find it hard to drive 200+ miles to watch the Riders absolutely smash us. I personally will still wear my green jersey to games this will always be a raiders city Positivity, just what the club needs. |
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Post by Raidersfan on Aug 10, 2021 19:10:43 GMT
Think with the city being so in love with the club, the people need the truth to really what happened to our club, to then even understand how the hell this new expansion team plans to survive when the raiders couldn’t… I hope I am wrong but I don’t see this lasting past this season. I watched the raiders lose 6 games on the spin at home, but we were at least competitive, I fear a totally uncompetitive team won’t put bums on seats. I personally would find it hard to drive 200+ miles to watch the Riders absolutely smash us. I personally will still wear my green jersey to games this will always be a raiders city Positivity, just what the club needs. Sarcasm go you!!!! Why would I be anything but verging on feeling negative?? The Raiders are gone, dust, history…. This expansion team is just filling the void left. Patriots…. What the hell name is that, they really had a chance to allow the fans to be part of this by polling a new name. The logo is terrible and a cheap knock off of inter Miami, it’s literally the same logo. We won’t have a venue next season, why would anyone sponsor this, after all sponsors sponsor to make money, I’m sorry and I prey I’m wrong but basketball won’t last long in Plymouth |
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Post by RaidersFan92 on Aug 10, 2021 19:27:13 GMT
This is BBL, no negativity is allowed thank you. You must happy clap regardless. Never say anything that might offend anyone because we should be grateful. Got it!
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Post by notoriousbigz on Aug 11, 2021 6:35:56 GMT
This is BBL, no negativity is allowed thank you. You must happy clap regardless. Never say anything that might offend anyone because we should be grateful. Got it! I mean, they could have just left the franchise to rot and not bothered leaving a more than decent fanbase with nothing to watch, so whilst I'm usually the cynic in this case I do think you should be grateful. Do I think there'll be a step back in quality? I think thats a given isnt it. Do I think Paul James is the right man for such a project? No, I didnt even like the appointment for Raiders if I'm honest and if the Turks did get bored because they splashed so much money for no return then he's part of that with the roster he put together and failed to win with. But all that said you have a team to watch and that's better than nothing. It isnt the current franchise/owners fault Raiders were run into the ground and lets face it, theyre not coming back. Could be like us in Merseyside who've got nothing after Tigers went under, or Birmingham who've not had anything for years. |
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