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Post by davef on Oct 20, 2021 15:56:46 GMT
Sorry it’s just nonsense.
If the past 15 years of varying quality basketball in Plymouth haven’t been sufficient to retain a fan base of just over 1000 for a few weeks without needing the ‘attraction’ of a comedy fox to sustain it then perhaps you need to go back over the last 15 years and rethink the model that was used.
Push the product, educate the fans, teach the game. Don’t hide behind the cheerleaders, lighting or foxes.
The pavilions has been in a timewarp of its own for years now. It may once have been in its own words ‘the uks no1 basketball venue’, () but now it’s not even close. The only venue in the league without a wooden floor, antiquated and unsuitable changing facilities. The fox has been doing the same thing for over a decade. (And breaking multiple league rules whilst doing it). Eventually it becomes tired.
You say it attracts young kids but what happens when they become teenagers? Do they return or do they think it’s all a bit corny and primary school?
The model of constantly seeking to attract new fans in British basketball with stuff that doesn’t happen on the court is flawed. Far better to educate a crowd and retain the fans you have and build organically.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 16:21:14 GMT
raidersfanyeah, Bigz is (obviously) still watching Tigers and,Dave hasn't missed a Sunderland Scorpions game for over a quarter of a century
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Post by donthatetheplayer on Oct 20, 2021 16:33:00 GMT
There's been a bigger fuss about a mascot all over their socials this week than tonights South West derby game. shambles, it all looks a bit lost and confused. Assuming they are there to play ball, as Hersey says, maybe it's already time to knock it on the head lol, otherwise just forget the bball and have a bloke in a suit running around for 40 minutes and turn it into a one man comedy show.
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 16:49:14 GMT
Sorry it’s just nonsense. If the past 15 years of varying quality basketball in Plymouth haven’t been sufficient to retain a fan base of just over 1000 for a few weeks without needing the ‘attraction’ of a comedy fox to sustain it then perhaps you need to go back over the last 15 years and rethink the model that was used. Push the product, educate the fans, teach the game. Don’t hide behind the cheerleaders, lighting or foxes. The pavilions has been in a timewarp of its own for years now. It may once have been in its own words ‘the uks no1 basketball venue’, () but now it’s not even close. The only venue in the league without a wooden floor, antiquated and unsuitable changing facilities. The fox has been doing the same thing for over a decade. (And breaking multiple league rules whilst doing it). Eventually it becomes tired. You say it attracts young kids but what happens when they become teenagers? Do they return or do they think it’s all a bit corny and primary school? The model of constantly seeking to attract new fans in British basketball with stuff that doesn’t happen on the court is flawed. Far better to educate a crowd and retain the fans you have and build organically. I can't fault any of what you've written above Dave. To emphasise your point, the u16 team at Plymouth Basketball Club (formerly Raiders Development) that I coach - less than half have been to a Raiders/Patriots game. The conversion rate and lasting interest is a poor legacy. Compare this to Ipswich Basketball Club - we used to have to see if we could ask for earlier tip off times for London away games so the u18s could get back to watch the senior men play. |
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 16:52:16 GMT
There's been a bigger fuss about a mascot all over their socials this week than tonights South West derby game. shambles, it all looks a bit lost and confused. Assuming they are there to play ball, as Hersey says, maybe it's already time to knock it on the head lol, otherwise just forget the bball and have a bloke in a suit running around for 40 minutes and turn it into a one man comedy show. Rather than knock it on the head (a recurring suggestion of yours) what would you suggest they do within the realms of their budget, as they've said they don't want to overspend like the last prima donnas? |
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Post by davef on Oct 20, 2021 17:00:39 GMT
There's not much they can do. They have wait it out and survive. And the true basketball fans in Plymouth (ie the ones that dont just go to be entertained by a 'comedy' fox) need to get behind them.
Because otherwise they wont have a team.
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Post by davef on Oct 20, 2021 17:09:05 GMT
and what is said about the u16s is interesting.
Its a factor we are really concentrating on at Newcastle this year. We have a (relatively) enormous youth membership at over 1000 players in our affiliated local clubs between ages of 5 and 18 but traditionally have struggled to convert them into regular ticket holders. We are really pushing it this year, with emails, discounted tickets for members (£8 minimum), pre game clinics etc and at the moment its going well. Going to look at the data in more details in a few games time when we have enough of a sample.
We want to build a basketball audience and whilst the kids do get to chuck a duck at the end of the third quarter, when the game is on there is no music playing, the mascot is unobtrusive and we are trying to highlight the game.
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 17:13:42 GMT
That is superb Dave, best of luck!
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Post by skeg on Oct 20, 2021 17:46:33 GMT
To all that are taking this a bit hard. If your suggesting that the crowd numbers will drop because there won’t be some dude dressed as a fox there then your club has bigger problems.
I understand game day experience and all that but seriously the reaction this has got from some people makes it sound like you’d be prepared to pay to see foxy on his own with no basketball.
I’ve always thought bbl has been marketed as too nicey, nicey, family, family. You only have to look at crowd demographic between bbl and most other European leagues. Hardcore die hard fan base on the continent, where as here there’s a fan’s revolt because there’s not a fox mascot at the game. Assume the crowds would all come flooding back to watch some pro basketball if Patriots could get Mr Tumble in as a replacement.
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 17:57:03 GMT
To all that are taking this a bit hard. If your suggesting that the crowd numbers will drop because there won’t be some dude dressed as a fox there then your club has bigger problems. I understand game day experience and all that but seriously the reaction this has got from some people makes it sound like you’d be prepared to pay to see foxy on his own with no basketball. I’ve always thought bbl has been marketed as too nicey, nicey, family, family. You only have to look at crowd demographic between bbl and most other European leagues. Hardcore die hard fan base on the continent, where as here there’s a fan’s revolt because there’s not a fox mascot at the game. Assume the crowds would all come flooding back to watch some pro basketball if Patriots could get Mr Tumble in as a replacement. Again, a lot of sense here. Mind you my 4 year old would love Mr T... but I'd miss the game as I'd end up playing on my phone much like when CBeebies is on. You just can't win. |
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Post by notoriousbigz on Oct 20, 2021 18:01:23 GMT
Is anyone watching this? What the actual sh*tballs is going on?
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 18:05:27 GMT
Volume or saying goodbye to the Fox?
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Post by notoriousbigz on Oct 20, 2021 18:20:35 GMT
A bit of both tbh mate!
I mean, the guys gonna show up next week in a different costume...
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Post by MansfieldMike on Oct 20, 2021 18:54:23 GMT
Volume or saying goodbye to the Fox? Well he seems to be there tonight. |
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 18:59:24 GMT
Yeah they gave him a send off at the 3 min mark before tip off.
Low scoring game, but am enjoying it so far.
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skeg
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Post by skeg on Oct 20, 2021 19:02:49 GMT
To all that are taking this a bit hard. If your suggesting that the crowd numbers will drop because there won’t be some dude dressed as a fox there then your club has bigger problems. I understand game day experience and all that but seriously the reaction this has got from some people makes it sound like you’d be prepared to pay to see foxy on his own with no basketball. I’ve always thought bbl has been marketed as too nicey, nicey, family, family. You only have to look at crowd demographic between bbl and most other European leagues. Hardcore die hard fan base on the continent, where as here there’s a fan’s revolt because there’s not a fox mascot at the game. Assume the crowds would all come flooding back to watch some pro basketball if Patriots could get Mr Tumble in as a replacement. Again, a lot of sense here. Mind you my 4 year old would love Mr T... but I'd miss the game as I'd end up playing on my phone much like when CBeebies is on. You just can't win. You know what, as I was writing Mr Tumble I knew there was probably a demographic that would go and watch that😂 Should all be about the game and not the side show. I’ve even found myself when I’ve been to nba London and the odd game in the states being sidetracked by the side show and not the game. This even comes down to the pre scripted, acted out crowd participation stuff in the nba. Mental |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 20:02:52 GMT
Sorry, just told my kids about Mr Tumble coming, we're in
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Post by Raidersfan on Oct 20, 2021 20:06:24 GMT
Seems all a laugh, pats just been beaten again by a flyers team we destroyed last season. Does anyone see a win coming from anywhere? Sure it’ll be laughs when attendances hit new lows game after game and we lose another Plymouth team!!! But let’s all joke about me getting fired up over the loss of our mascot, or make fun that Mr Tumbles will pay a visit!!!
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 20:23:02 GMT
Seems all a laugh, pats just been beaten again by a flyers team we destroyed last season. Does anyone see a win coming from anywhere? Sure it’ll be laughs when attendances hit new lows game after game and we lose another Plymouth team!!! But let’s all joke about me getting fired up over the loss of our mascot, or make fun that Mr Tumbles will pay a visit!!! And how much did last season's victories cost us? |
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Post by davef on Oct 20, 2021 20:58:19 GMT
Almost cost you basketball in the city.
Astounding that even now fans can’t see the folly of what went on.
Until success is sustainable, it’s valueless.
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Post by Raidersfan on Oct 20, 2021 21:14:23 GMT
Think we all know the club was put in a position it couldn’t withstand, the team put together was incredible and totally out of our budget especially during a pandemic.
People saying foxy was out of date, the pavilions likewise, but would love to hear what people think the club should actually do to be finically stable?
It’s clear most on here think a man in a suit isn’t a big deal, I still think it’s source of entertainment and could be a reason just 1 family choose to attend!!! But that aside what do people think? There’s obviously a very limited budget, the logo and name tbh are somewhat uninspiring, so what can the club do
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Post by clintonh on Oct 20, 2021 21:33:27 GMT
Should Patriots get our own place next season, personally all I’d look for is a place with a good floor, good sight lines and just enough capacity to fill the leagues guidelines. Admittedly the other entertainment keeps my 4 year daughter happy, as when I asked if she thought PJ should advance the ball after the timeout she didn’t seem to care. She’ll come good I’m sure.
I will say sports fans don’t like their product mucked about with. Look at all the fuss when Arsenal said they were dumping their mascot. Or when Plymouth Argyle remixed Semper Fidelis ( the tunnel walkout music) to a more rock version. Peolple really kicked off!
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 20, 2021 21:42:23 GMT
1. Be sustainable. Survive.
2. Find a cost effective venue. Survive.
It's functional, it's boring, but it has to be. At first.
Oh and...
3. Do not forget point 1.
It will look very different to the good old days for some time, but unfortunately due to the utter financial screw up, it has to.
But then rock bottom is a pretty solid foundation.
Once point 1. and 3. are embedded, that's when I might consider what to do next.
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Post by MansfieldMike on Oct 20, 2021 23:33:13 GMT
You're absolutely right, rock bottom proved to be a very solid foundation for Leicester Riders, and the resultant success did not happen overnight.
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Post by basketballjoe3 on Oct 21, 2021 12:19:50 GMT
Well the Fox has gone to a new home.
There were three bids in total received by the liquidator. My bid of £500 was unsuccessful. Had I have been, I would have offered it to Patriots for free. If they didn't want it, I would have had a tough conversation with my wife...
I understand Patriots may have put in a bid, I guess we will find out in due course if they were successful. If not, I wonder who is the new lucky owner, how much the suit is worth to them and what their intention is?
My phone homepage is a photo from Sunday of Foxy and my son, the smile on his face is priceless. That would value the Fox somewhere between £500 and his smile.
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