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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 17:48:25 GMT
They say history is written by the victor, and I'm quietly confident that we lost all of the games, I'm after the result of.
I'm looking for Leopards' results in the BBL Trophybetween 2007/8 & 2011/12 inclusive. We didn't compete every year, but we were definitely in a group with MK & Riders in the 11/12 season. The BBL site only has results from theknockout rounds, and the first stage was played in groups until 2012/13.
These are the only competitive results I'm missing from out 25 seasons, so clearly in this time of national emergency in is information of great importance
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Post by SM11 on Apr 22, 2020 19:41:51 GMT
Here they are... 11-12 BBL Trophy... www.bbl.org.uk/competitions/?WHurl=%2Fcompetition%2F108%2Fteam%2F609%3F11/11/11 Leicester RidersLeicester Riders (H) L58-96 10/30/11 London LionsLondon Lions (H) L65-93 10/16/11 London LionsLondon Lions (A) L72-113 10/15/11 Leicester RidersLeicester Riders (A) L78-104 The group results are there on the site. You just have to click around. For example to find the above I had to click onto Trophy results for 2011-2012. Then Semi Finals. Then click the London Lions. Then click schedule. And then finally click the either one of the 'Essex Leopards' in the fixtures lions played the Leopards. By the way the above group finished... 1 MK Lions 3-1 2 Leicester Riders 3-1 3 Leopards 0-4 Also here is your 09-10 result in the first round of the Trophy (played as KO as are current editions) www.bbl.org.uk/competitions/?WHurl=%2Fcompetition%2F234%2Fteam%2F6091/31/10 Cheshire PhoenixCheshire Phoenix (A) L57-99 Trophy was exclusive to BBL clubs in editions 07-08, 08-09 and 10-11 (should have been in 11-12 as well but you replaced Essex Pirates when they pulled out just before the season) you didnt specify above but just in case here are the links to your 06-07 Trophy campaign... www.bbl.org.uk/competitions/?WHurl=%2Fcompetition%2F219%2Fteam%2F826%3F12/10/06 London United (H) L84-113 11/11/06 London LionsLondon Lions (H) L73-88 10/14/06 Leicester RidersLeicester Riders (A) L72-109 Table 1 Leicester Riders 2-1 2 London United 2-1 3 MK Lions 2-1 4 Leopards 0-3 and 05-06 Trophy... www.bbl.org.uk/competitions/?WHurl=%2Fcompetition%2F215%2Fteam%2F718%3F12/14/05 London LionsLondon Lions (H) L80-107 11/27/05 Leicester RidersLeicester Riders (H) L55-75 11/5/05 London Towers (A) L53-86 10/23/05 Birmingham Bullets (A) L74-115 1 Leicester Riders 3-1 2 Birmingham Bullets 3-1 3 MK Lions 2-2 4 London Towers 2-2 5 Leopards 0-4 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 20:11:09 GMT
Cheers, very cunning. I couldn't remember when we played Chester. I had the rest. We made money out of the Chester game - although it also took a day and half of my life - but stepping in to replace Pirates cost us a fortune, although the games certainly toughened us up for what proved to be our best D1 season. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 19:34:42 GMT
It turns out I lied.
Last 4 scores needed All D1 playoffs
2009/10 v Coventry won. v magic lost
2008/9 Lost at Bristol
2007/8 Lost at Wodson v capital
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Post by SM11 on Apr 24, 2020 21:27:39 GMT
I think I can help but im not sure I have the years and match ups that correspond with yours. I dont think i can prove these either but i have...
06-07 Play offs London Leopards as 4th seed lose home in Quarter Finals vs PAWS London Capitals 70-80
07-08 Play offs London Leopards as 5th seed lose away in Quarter Finals at Bristol Academy Flyers 96-105
08-09 Play offs London Leopards as 3rd seed win home in Quarter Finals vs Coventry Crusaders 74-71
and then lose to Manchester Magic at the final four at the Amaechi 76-92
I hope these are what you were looking for
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Post by SM11 on Apr 24, 2020 21:34:58 GMT
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Post by SM11 on Apr 24, 2020 21:43:08 GMT
While we are on the subject of historical results etc. I was doing a bit of research via the wayback machine trying to find some scores and league tables and unearthed an absolute burried hidden gem from the Plymouth Raiders website... web.archive.org/web/20030308165318/http://www.plymouthraiders.com/pages/raiders/history.htmIts a complete list of Plymouth Raiders Scores, League Tables, Stats and season reviews from 1983 to 2002. Incredible stuff that I think they should resurrect on to the current day website. And seeing as they were a constant of the second tier through out those years it not only is a chronicle of Raiders fortunes but it also forms a complete list of all second division tables during those years. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 21:46:50 GMT
Wow. I fking love you. Please register, before the morons get the guests banned.
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Post by SM11 on Apr 24, 2020 21:57:22 GMT
Oh and Hersey maybe you can help me out with something for my archive too seeing as you are the number 1 inside man on whatsbev on all matters NBL. I recently came to add in the latest Div 1 table to my archive on my computer seeing as it has been prematurely declared finished. I noted the whole void = 0pts, whilst scheduled but not played = 1pts each system. I get that. However each teams totals add up correctly except one team. Barking Abbey who have 4 wins and 5 scheduled games that werent played. That is 13 points but the BE website has 12. My question is this... Is Barking Abbeys total a miscalculation and in fact they should have 13 points, or were Barking Abbey deducted a point at some point this season which would explain why they have 12. Not that it matters that much as it doesnt make a difference between 'would be' play off places or relegation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 9:20:28 GMT
Cheers for all the info. I'll check the seasons later.
Re Barking, it looks like BE have just added it up wrong (every teams' record had to be manually adjusted), there's no reason they'd have had a point deducted. If you play an ineligible player, it's a 20-0 to the opposition and if you fail to do stats or upload the video of games it just gets ignored.
The Plymouth stuff is excellent (especially some very young looking guys that I got to know), you're right that it should be on the current website.
Have you been on the English Basketball History Facebook site? It's more memories and cuttings than facts & figures, but there's some great stuff on there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 10:21:53 GMT
SM11, how detailed is your database? English basketball really needs a central info database. Wiki is okay but doesn't have all the lower division, the early rounds of the cup or the Trophy/Patrons etc. BE's site only has the last decade or so and some of the early cup results have massive discrepancies - I'm pretty sure Hatters II never reached the QF of the men's trophy. The BBL is clearly the best but obviously it's only the top division and only starts from when the top division broke away from the rest of the NBL.
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Post by SM11 on Apr 25, 2020 15:22:02 GMT
Thanks for the info. Being honest my collection isnt that spectacular. At NBL level its just a record of all the league tables and most play off results i have found on the web or in my old tip off magazines (do you remember them).
In 2007 i had the idea that I would try and produce my very own 'rothmans' book of british basketball. I quickly realised that this really isnt possible lol. There are 'rothman esque' collections of British Ice Hockey and British American Football and no doubt other minor sports as well. But basketball there isnt which is such a shame. So in 2007 I made note of all the league tables and play off results I could find up to 96-97 which is where the gaps really started to form. I said id come back to it over the years but in the end i didnt keep it up. I made note of Div 1 and 2 for a few more seasons (which is good as i notice some have been whipped from the BE website recently) but eventually i stopped all together. In 2016 i discover the wayback machine above and my hopes of producing that Rothmans reignites lol. Thankfully i filled in the Div 1 and 2 tables in between me stopping and to the point in time via the BE website but didnt bother with div 3 and 4.
For the second tier I am now (thanks to that Plymouth web page above) only 5 league tables short of a complete set. 77-78, 78-79, 79-80, 81-82 and 82-83. The Plymouth page filled any gap i had up to 83-84. The pawprint history section gave me 75-76 and 76-77. And of course the Solent Stars blog site (another gem) gave me 80-81. Any tips on those gaps would be hugely appreciated.
There are two frustrating aspects of this. One is that when I find a league table sometimes they are wrong. Although i don't have a reason to doubt it as such but some times they literally dont add up. To give an example if you look at the 75-76 first division table on the british basketball wiki (another gem by the way) in total there are 86 wins and 94 losses. Thats impossible, those two figures need to match. I think its a copy of the pawprint history table which has the same error. However if you read the actual pawprint article it describes how in the penultimate weekend Palace are on 1 loss, Islington 2 and Doncaster 2 going into the title decider between palace and doncaster which palace win. The rest of the article does not mention any losses for any of those 3 other than ones against eachother. This means that doncaster must have been 15-3 whilst the table has them as 11-7. That must be the error in the table so I update my records accordingly.
As a result i had to put quite a bit of time into some of the tables. Another example is the 00-01 Div 2 and Div 3 tables (now considered div 3 and 4 respectively). Both tables in both Tip off and Britball archive are wrong the overall wins and loss ratios dont match. So i actually went through and added up the results week by week, i still fell about a dozen results short and then just kind of made an educated guess based on play off seeds etc. Those two tables i have i dont think i will ever know for sure if im right because i think there was genuine confusion over them at the time. I found an article on the Mansfield local newspaper archives (cant find it any more) which confirmed my assumption. It described how the EBBA had told the Mansfield Express that they had finished 8th and were to go to Derbyshire Arrows in the play offs but then discovered that they had calculated the table wrong and told Mansfield with a couple of days to go that they had in fact finished 7th and had to now make a much longer trip to Ealing Tornadoes instead. Madness. I doubt we will ever see the correct tables for those division ever again but the ones I put together im satisfied cant be that far off from the truth.
The other frustration is that the scores of the play off results can cause confusion. For example the 2000 Div 1 PO QF between Teesside and Taunton. Tip off had 95-77 whilst the Britball archive has 84-70. They are both very different and I have no idea who is right. I went for tip offs but how do i know for sure. Thats the thing about basketball scores. When it comes to football we all know that it was 4-2 in 66 and Germany beat Brazil 7-1. But can anyone off the top of there heads remember the score of the 98 bulls jazz epic, or the 72 olympic final or the game you watched yesterday. No we cant.
Sorry to bore you with my life story lol. I should see if i can upload the word docs ive been making on to here. Or perhaps just copy and paste them here. Yeah the fixture data base took a massive blow when they changed the website a few years ago. 05-06 to 08-09 broke. The info was there if you clicked around, but they didnt link to the table section. They seem to now have taken the decision to just delete them rather than try and link them back together which again is a shame. I noticed the same with the Trophy lol, the mens and womens ones seem to have merged lol.
Im not on facebook any more so i wasnt aware of that. I will check that one out. Thanks for the tip. I like looking over the old photos and videos etc so thank you. Im also aware of the archive going on at Worcester Uni. One day im guna make the trip and see if i can have a look through it and fill some more gaps.
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Post by PointlessMonkey on Apr 25, 2020 16:29:44 GMT
While we are on the subject of historical results etc. I was doing a bit of research via the wayback machine trying to find some scores and league tables and unearthed an absolute burried hidden gem from the Plymouth Raiders website... web.archive.org/web/20030308165318/http://www.plymouthraiders.com/pages/raiders/history.htmIts a complete list of Plymouth Raiders Scores, League Tables, Stats and season reviews from 1983 to 2002. Incredible stuff that I think they should resurrect on to the current day website. And seeing as they were a constant of the second tier through out those years it not only is a chronicle of Raiders fortunes but it also forms a complete list of all second division tables during those years. Wow, this fills in loads of gaps on my own little personal project I am doing. Shame the stats aren't available but the rest is great |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 17:56:08 GMT
While we are on the subject of historical results etc. I was doing a bit of research via the wayback machine trying to find some scores and league tables and unearthed an absolute burried hidden gem from the Plymouth Raiders website... web.archive.org/web/20030308165318/http://www.plymouthraiders.com/pages/raiders/history.htmIts a complete list of Plymouth Raiders Scores, League Tables, Stats and season reviews from 1983 to 2002. Incredible stuff that I think they should resurrect on to the current day website. And seeing as they were a constant of the second tier through out those years it not only is a chronicle of Raiders fortunes but it also forms a complete list of all second division tables during those years. Wow, this fills in loads of gaps on my own little personal project I am doing. Shame the stats aren't available but the rest is great Can I see your project once it's done mate |
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Post by PointlessMonkey on Apr 25, 2020 17:58:30 GMT
Wow, this fills in loads of gaps on my own little personal project I am doing. Shame the stats aren't available but the rest is great Can I see your project once it's done mate Will do. Not coming along very fast as keep changing my mind on what to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 18:26:50 GMT
Anyone got any ideas if there's an EBL team in or around Cambridge?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 19:15:09 GMT
No. I think Cats had one or two seasons in the last 20 years since I started looking. To the east you have Ipswich and Rebels in Colchester. To the west (probably nearer) you have Leopards (in St Albans) and Hemel. Northampton have had teams, but it's never really taken off in Peterborough (spit) and Cambridge. I'm not sure whether being six fingered freaks should help the people of Peterborough or not  |
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Post by ko25 on Apr 25, 2020 19:22:18 GMT
Sorry to bore you with my life story lol. I should see if i can upload the word docs ive been making on to here. Or perhaps just copy and paste them here. I really like this idea, you should register and DM me I'm sure we could sort a proper place to put them on here. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 19:27:44 GMT
SM11, yeah it's galling that the likes of Rothmans (I used to learn every page of their non-league book as a kid) gives every detail and you can find out the 1898/99 Cheshire Football League table without too much effort but we can't get the NBL D2 table from 1986/7. BE (in its various guises) always seem to have given jobs for the boys rather than employing the best person for the job and their record keeping has been poor. Even now the result system doesn't add up the quarter scores and check they tally with the final result. I wonder how many errors are still being made that are going to become "fact" over time.
I don't "do" facebook, either, but I got contacted about Leopards, so you might get some help to fill your gaps.
It will never be entirely accurate, but it would be great to have a decent history database of our game.
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sm11
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Post by sm11 on Apr 26, 2020 9:32:53 GMT
Ive registered. Ive merged some of my Word Docs together into currently 16 chapters and then PDF'd them. Ive included some sources and explanations as well at the bottom of each doc. Also please take team names with a pinch of salt. I didnt include sponsors and even then some of them maybe wrong. Chapter 1 01 NBL Mens Division 1 1972-1973 to 1986-1987.pdf (666.3 KB) Chapter 2 02 BBL 1987-1988 to 2001-2002.pdf (853.55 KB) |
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Post by sm11 on Apr 26, 2020 9:34:23 GMT
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Post by sm11 on Apr 26, 2020 9:34:50 GMT
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Post by sm11 on Apr 26, 2020 9:35:23 GMT
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Post by sm11 on Apr 26, 2020 9:36:02 GMT
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Post by sm11 on Apr 26, 2020 9:36:30 GMT
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